zacster

I have an old steel bike I'm slowly making back into a decent ride. I took it out on Saturday after installing a new chain, and the drivetrain works nicely, downtube Campy NR friction shifters with a 10 speed Shimano rear wheel, really, it works.

The problem is with the brakes. They suck. I'm used to Chorus brakes and the matching carbon brifters on my other bike which have good stopping power. This one has Modolo Speedy levers and brakes from the early 80s, and old cables too. I had greased the cables a few years ago and they could use it again, or get new cables too. The pads are new(ish) too, from about 3 years ago with little use. They still don't stop like my Chorus do.

My question is which will impact braking more, new levers or new calipers? Of course, having new everything would be best, but that gets expensive. I was thinking Centaur or Veloce calipers as these are reasonably priced, but I've also seen Chorus cheap too. Shimano brakes just seem to be higher priced. Are these better?

If I really were crazy I'd buy a group that included brifters so I could get away from downtube shifting, but that gets really expensive. I hesitate to buy used, but I guess it is an option.

well biked

That's cool about the NR shifters and 10 speed cassette.

As for the brakes, assuming cables and housings that are in good shape, the things that will make the most difference in braking performance is new Kool Stop salmon brake pads and aero-style brake levers. In terms of stopping power, the calipers themselves will make the least amount of difference, although I wouldn't blame you if you switched to dual pivot calipers over those single pivot sidepulls. I have some Modolo Speedy brakes as well and although they stop well, they won't stay centered worth a darn-

bikeman715

i would start by replacing the cables& housing and the brake shoes and take it from there . i personally replace them every year .

ruppster

Try an inexpensive set of dual pivot brakes (like the Nashbar/Tektro ones), they have alot more stopping power. You may need them in long reach for an older bike with lots of clearance.

zacster

How about the Cane Creek stuff? Good? Crap? I was looking at the levers and calipers, although Centaur calipers are cheap enough on eBay and I trust Campy so I would go with those. The Cane levers are sold as vintage replacement gear, and every vintage bike I've seen recently needs new levers so maybe they have something.

Do levers usually come with cables?

SweetLou

The Cane Creeks are made by Tektro, they are the same. I'd go with the Tektros because they are cheaper. No, you don't get cables with the levers.

As mentioned above, I would put aero type levers on, they have a bit more mechanical advantage. I also like the dual pivot brakes. I did the same thing on a '85 Trek, using all Tektro parts and Kool Stop Salmon pads. They stop very well. The Tektro pads are not the best.

zacster

Thanks all, I bid on a pair of cane creek scr5 calipers but was outbid. I'll look again at the tektro to see if they are the same. I'm going to try and do the whole thing, lever, cable and caliper, but keep it cheap.

SweetLou

The only difference between the Cane Creek and the Tektro is the hoods. I really like the Tektro R100a, since I have small hands.

carpediemracing 

I raced the Modolo Pros, Speedys, and Sprints (their cheapest - I think it was the Sprint anyway).

The levers have poor leverage. This was the trend back then - lots of brake travel, snappy return springs (so you can clack your lever instead of holding out a hand to say you're slowing, or to warn people you're there), and exotic brake pad upgrades (Modolo'd sintered metal pads - read "water soluable", Matthauser pads, etc) because the brakes didn't work too well with the wood-like blocks many low end brakes had on them.

The problem is that the calipers are also designed for long-pull levers. If you get more modern levers designed for lots of cable movement (i.e. levers designed for dual pivot), you'll either have to run your pads super close to your rim or you'll be able to bottom out the lever on the bar.

I'd get any modern brake system (calipers and levers), keeping above the bottom of each manufacturer's line. If the pads are sketchy on whatever you're looking at (they'll probably be a post about the pads here somewhere), either get a better model or upgrade the pads. Personally, given the choice, I'd upgrade the brakes until I was at Ultegra or Centaur level. Gets you better quality pivots, less play, and a brake that you can move from bike to bike for a while.

hope this helps,
cdr

zacster

I checked the old bike last night (its a nice bike btw, a custom built Davidson) and I see that the Modolo brakes have a medium reach, not a long reach, but longer than I think modern brakes have. There seems to be a lot more room between the bridge and the tire. I'll have to measure the bolt to rim distance and see if the Chorus brakes I have can span it. If not I guess I'm stuck with long reach ones, which I somehow assume will be of lesser quality.

I'm thinking at this point of getting the full system instead of one at a time, as you are probably right in saying they do work together. Old levers with new calipers and vice versa probably don't mesh well.

I also have a pair of the original Modolo Kronos levers. These were the worst I've ever used. Combined with Campy SR brakes they just weren't effective.

well biked

No, but it can make an amazing difference if you use new levers with old calipers. And Kool Stop salmon pads are a big plus as well. The calipers themselves will make the least amount of difference, assuming everything is in good shape.

melville

No $#!+! I've got Modolos on my road Davidson. The best upgrade would be to single pivot era Japanese aero levers if you keep the calipers. Dia-Compe, early ultegra or 105, '87-'90 Dura-Ace. Leverage increases enough to make lever effort roughly equivalent (maybe a little lighter) to Campy SR. The brake is still about slowing down, not stopping so much like those modern DP brakes.

If the levers you find have those tiny springs in them, remove them for use with Modolo calipers. They often come out without disassembly.

Yes, the Kronos levers were a sad experiment. I've got a set on my FG winter bike, where they will never be put into a life or death situation.

zacster

Pics?? I took a class at Wright Brothers in 1980, and one of the classes was a road trip to Bill Davidson's shop, pre-Elliott Bay, down in Kent I think. When it came time to buy a new bike back then I had Charles Hadrann measure me up (not like they do now with a complete fitting) and ordered the Davidson through him. I could barely afford this, and rather than getting the all Campy NR build I wanted, I pieced it together with somewhat cheaper components. I ended up the the Speedys, a Zeus crank, an SR seatpost, and Campy NR gears. The wheels were I believe Modolo sealed hubs, with MA-40 rims, or something like that. I always thought I would upgrade but never did, but not so much because I couldn't afford it, but because another bike fell into my hands with Campy SR pantograph, and the modolo kronos levers. I still have both.

Davidson

Zilioli

Someday I'll take better pictures of them. I've been using these same pics for years now.

melville

I used to work for EBB in the early 90s. Mine is a production crit frame, built up with what I had laying around at the time, with some improvements following. It's a bit more schizophrenic than what you've got or had, and nearly every part has a story (traded a wheelbuild for part X, bought Y a lapdance for part Z) because I'm too cheap to actually buy matching $#!+. No pics at present, but I'll see about getting my 11 year old son to set me up at photobucket.

zacster

Yes, I do ride in Prospect Park, I was there last night, and I'm going to do a few loops this morning too. In fact Prospect Park is probably the only place I'd ride this bike. For anything longer I'll be on my Kuota carbon bike. It was when I was still out on the street that I realized these brakes won't stop me in city traffic, at least not the way I'm used to.

I had tried to put pads on but they don't fit, at least nothing that the shop had. R&A usually has just about everything. I think I'm going to try new cables/housing next.

I can't say I've ever seen your daughter in there, but I'll keep an eye out for her. Does she ride often? It isn't like Central Park with the huge crowds, I do see the same people all the time in PP.

JTGraphics

I'd suggest new pads you say they are new but 3 years old, as far as the rubber on them goes they are old and hard, they are the cheap start to see it it helps first.

zacster

Yes, they are 3 years old, but they weren't any good when new either.