mikeyp.1

I would consider a rholoff if it was available in USA as orriginal equipment on a reasonablly light bike that didn't cost too much.I bought my dura ace 10 speed bike for $1700 and to me that is the upper limit on price.for now I will use my nexus 7 bike,my two inter8 bikes and my premium 8 bike,while awaiting the new SRAM I-motion 9.

I-Like-To-Bike

Hans,

Glad to see you are still biking. Lucky you, living in Gouda. My family discovered your beautiful city in 1987 when touring from Germany and always visited at least once a year for the ten years we lived in Germany. The Saturday market by the town hall was always a delight. Always stayed at the Hotel de Utrechtsche Dom. The proprietor looked just the Postman, Joseph Roulin that Van Gogh immortalized in oil. Changed hands and modernized the last time we were there in 2001 or so.

Do you travel somewhere other than Western NL where you can practically use 14 gears on your bike?

Hans_U

Yep,
France, Greece and Surinam (so far). Have a look at
https://www.t22t.nl/en_index.html
if you are interested in the details.....

To be honest : we seldom use gears 13 and 14. And gears 1-5 only for really steep climbing.
Which brings me to related point : choice of sprocket and chainring.
if you are looking for a world travelling bike or a mountain bike, you are probably not very interested in a "high-speed" combination. Do you want to cycle 50 km/hour with a fully packed bike? When can you go faster than 40 km/hour on your mountain bike? (exceptions apart, save me your stories).
For this kind of usage a chainring/sprocket combination of 40/16 or 42/17 seems ideal. Which is smaller than what most bikes are delivered with off-factory where they are typically set to match a 3*9 derailleur (racing) bike.
On this site you'll find an excellent comparison chart between the various Rohloff choices and different derailler set-ups:
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpd...thARohloff.pdf

happy cycling, Hans.

brunop

sold. i got a surly karate monkey on order to be built with a rohloff from harris cyclery in newton, ma.

wroomwroomoops

Hello Hans,

how many times did you change the oil in your hubs since you bought them?

Hans_U

Once every 5.000 kilometers. It's a small and even enjoyable job to do yourself.

You'll find further details and a step-by-step instruction on this web site :
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/rohloffhuboil.html


happy cycling, Hans.
https://www.t22t.nl takes 2 2 tandem

ColdCommuter

I'm sold on the Rohloff. But putting it together on a Surly Karate Monkey looks like it's going to cost me over $4500 Canadian ($3500 US) at my LBS. It's with Mavic wheels and Phil Woods hubs/bottom brackets, but everything else is basic. Ouch.

brunop, did you shop around? Do you have a ballpark range of what a Karate Monkey with Rohloff would run?

Hans, thanks for all your great comments. Do you mind telling us what kind of bicycle setups you're using? And did you use high-quality parts, e.g. hubs, bottom brackets, cranks?

Hans_U

Hi,
probably doesn't make a great deal of sense to give a detailed spec of my Rohloff bikes. They're all European stuff and my commuting bike and tandem are already 4 years old now, so wouldn't give you a lot of relevant info.

In Europe you typically pay some 3.000 euro's for a good quality Rohloff bike. Say around 4.000 USD.
Which is a lot of money. But not necessarily expensive.

Personally I usually aim for 'upper middle-class' components, knowing that for the real top-class components you usually pay excessive prices for only marginally better/lighter stuff.

Some of my favorites :
- Chris King headset
- Magura hydaulic rim brakes (I have HS33 on all my bikes, never done any maintenance, never had any problem)
- Schwalbe tires (Nobby Nic on my mountain bike, the new Ultremos on my racing bike, Marathon Supreme on the rest).
- a frame with an excentric bracket. No need for a chain tensioner, no special pads. Technically best solution I think. Works for me.

If you opt for the Karate Monkey, please do pay attention to the proper chainring and sprocket combination with the 29 inch wheels. Off-factory most bikes come with a set-up matching a 3*9 derailleur set-up of a racing bike.
My personal advice is to go for a really 'small' combination. Saving your knees, giving smaller steps in between gears, enabling you to use (more efficient) gears 8-14 on your speedhub nearly all the time.
Also see the comments at ThornLivingWithARohloff giving excellent info on Rohloff.

Good luck, cheers, Hans.

Takes 2 2 Tandem

wroomwroomoops

You're forgetting DT Swiss Aöpine III spokes and front hub and ... ummm.... Salsa rims?

Jokes apart, I totally agree on the eccentric BB frame. Not much of a choice for such frames, sadly.

ColdCommuter

Thanks Hans. I wouldn't even have considered the hydraulic rim brakes if you hadn't mentioned them.

I would definitely agree with you about Chris King, gearing ratios, "Living With a Rohloff" and the eccentric bottom bracket. I'm looking for a frame with 700C wheels. And a frame with cable guides for the Rohloff. since I intend to ride this bicycle for many years and don't like plastic cable ties.

I also want to pull a Chariot bicycle trailer with my young children in it. I found out there is no way to make a Karate Monkey, a Rohloff, and a Chariot all play happily together. So I'm looking at other frames now.

If I can import them into Canada, the most attractive frames and/or bicycles at the moment are:
From the UK
- Cannondale Street 1 Ultra. 26" wheels, though.
- Thorn Raven Tour. Again, 26" wheels
- Thorn Raven City Slicker. 26" wheels, but it looks like 700C wheels could easily fit in this frame.
Available in the US
- Koga-Miyata Expression.
- Tout Terrain Silkroad. Again, 26" wheels.

Does anyone have any other favorite frames built for Rohloff?

Niels

SoreFeet

You guys are beating a dead horse comparing a hub to a Rolex. Lets cut the crap and give the folks at Rohloff some credit. The full Shimano or Campy Groupo is very close to the cost of the Rohloff hub. The Campy and Shimano products do not give a perfect chainline. Derailleurs can snap, or throw the chain into a hellish frenzy. The parts that are being machined for the Rohloff are not exactly mass produced. I think spending 1,000$ on a hub makes a helluva lot more sense than buying a cookie cutter thirld world carbon frame for a thousand dollars or more that will break. For the hardcore touring people this hub is probably a good measure of security. The profit margins on th e Rohloff hub are probably pretty good but nowhere near the margin of a plastic brifter part. Quit *****ing about the price and understand that machining small parts is not that cheap. If anything people should be *****ing about Shimano/Campy price inflation on shifter parts. They are being greedy.

dbohemian

One thing that everyone should understand about pricing on the Rohloff is that we are comparing a European product to Asian (chinese) produced product.

The US dollar is very weak compared to the Euro and has been for a while. This makes our exchange rate less than ideal and causes European imports to cost more in real dollars for us then they do for Europeans.

The Chinese dollars is basically linked to the US dollar and makes for very favorable trade as we all know.

We should really be very worried about this trade/value imbalance. The Rohloff is a great value and is seriously hampered by the exchange rate. I guess they really don't make much at all on hubs they send to the US (which may be why there are shortages for time to time.) If it were my company I would sell all I could locally and only export any extra volume to the US since they are lower profit sales.

All the best,

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles

ColdCommuter

So ... I wound up buying a Thorn Sterling one year ago and put on 5000 km since. The Sterling you see on their website is my bike! I am extremely happy, although moreso with Andy at Thorn Cycles and my Busch & Mueller hub dynamo than the Rohloff.

Still the Rohloff hub has been great. Yes, it could be better. When rapidly accelerating and shifting in gears 1-7 there is an annoying tendency to actually shift 8 gears, e.g. from 3 to 11 (4+7). The drag in gears 1-7, the low range, is noticeable. I really wish it was less expensive: as good as it is, I still think it's overpriced compared to the competition.

But that's about the only disadvantages, and they are easily outweighed by the advantages. Overall shifting is a dream. I wouldn't have believed having a single shifter is so convenient - you never think about what chainring you're on. It is completely reliable, even in freezing temperatures, unlike my derailleur. Maintenance is minimal and unbelievably easy. I bought the external shifting hub to avoid freezing water dripping into the cable assembly, and cable maintenance is no problem as a result.

I do find I use all 14 gears. I commute 20km daily in and out of a river valley which is often steep enough that the roads descend/ascend at an angle. Combined with carrying panniers and being a little older, I'm in 1st gear every day going uphill and 12-14 going downhill. That makes me glad I didn't go with a 7 or 8 speed hub.

If you're going to buy one, I have no hesitation about dealing with Thorn Cycles. They have expert-level knowledge and advice about the hub. The frames are designed for the Rohloff. The are used to dealing with international customers - shipping and delivery was fantastic. After-sales support has been excellent.

Conclusion: the hub's price is painful, but it is an excellent product. If my bike was stolen I'd buy it again. Consider buying a frame designed for it.

Hope that's helpful,
Niels

Hans_U

Niels,
good to know that the thread I started on the Rohloff is still alive. Thanks for your comment.

I am actually surprised that you have an issue changing 8 gears when shifting rapidly. This should only occur sometimes (and is documented as such !) when shifting between 7-8 when it might go into 14. Which you notice immediately and can correct quite quickly too.
Never occurs to me in other gears. Never heard about it either. Please do check with Thorn or Rohloff; this doesn't seem normal to me.....

Personally I have gotten into the habit of releasing pedal pressure for a fraction of a second and then shifting when cycling with some pressure/speed. Quite easy/very quick when your feet are 'clicked' to the pedals. I am a real SPD fan!!!!
The trick really is to shift quickly, unlike a derailleur system that (usually) allows you to change gears slowly.

As a very simple rule of thumb : change gears when a pedal is in the 'up' position, when you typically apply less force.

There indeed is a little drag in gears 1-7, something like 1.5% compared with a CLEAN derailleur system. I think this is largely psychological : the hub makes some noise, combined with the fact that you typically use the lower gears when the going gets tough anyway, makes you blame the hub for the tougher going......

As always, everything in life (cars, houses, wifes, jobs, you name it....) is a compromise with pro's and con's, the balance pretty much depending on where your priorities are.
Glad to hear that in your case the balance is clearly favorable compared with competition. Eh, what competition by the way?

happy cycling, regards, Hans.

p.s. my Rohloff-count (3 bikes) stands at roughly 50.000 km at the moment, and still a very, very happy user....

MagWiz

Hello,
I am new on this forum. I am 56 years now and I learned bike riding in Germany with a 3 speed derailleur which I got from my dad in 1963 (it was some twenty years old then). Our dream was always to get a bike with a Torpedo 3 speed internal hub. I got eventually one for birthday and it was my friend for many years. I live now in Eastern Australia and can look back to bike travels from Germany to Sicily, around France, some crossings of the European Alps and a long Tandem Tour with my wife across the American continent. We did this all more than 25 years ago when long distance travel with bikes were almost unheard of. We built our Tandem ourselves (welded two frames together, Torpedo 3 speed hub and dual front blade). In a sense I see myself as a veteran who has learned the very core by experience.
I have come across the Rohloff hub last year during a visit in Germany. I did a lot of internet research about it and went finally ahead to get me a Cannondale Bad Boy 2008 Rohloff ordered by our nearest Cannondale dealer. No one around here had ever seen one and it took 2 months until it arrived from (Europe, US ??). The guys at the bike shop regarded me quite clear as a weirdo (to spend so much money on a 12kg !!! bike, not even one shred of carbon fibre, how can you?). They asked me why I made that choice and my answer was that I am a design engineer and that I want to be surrounded by the best and most passionate creations there are. It elates me and fosters my own passions and creativity. ( By the way - I would have a $12000 Rolex - and no they are not a scam. The scam is to fall for price and being blind for value and know how. There is a big difference between those who drive technology and those who copy or consume it. No - I am not a snob. I have cleared a bush block with tractor and machete and have build our house with my own hands. My hands were and are dirty and blistered from digging a well with pick axe and spade).
I have done now not quite 500km but can already say that there is no way that I will ever sell this bike or even consider to return to any derailleur system. I live in hilly country and use all 14 gears. I find the shifter direction against my personal intuition and look into changing it. I am also confused to label the slowest gear with the highest number but this is the only thing a can nitpick on at this stage. I like very much that the gear indexing is done within the hub and not by the gear selector (as in my old belove Torpedos).
No I do not critizise the costs. I know where Cannondale went through with developing alloy frames and I have a very good idea what Bernhard Rohloff has put in. To save up to have an equivalent for an exchange (money vs. passion and ingenuity) is in this context an honour and not a burden...

LWaB

Somebody has hooked up your cables in reverse. The lowest gear should be 1 and the highest gear should be 14.

tatfiend 

Interestingly enough the Cannondale with the Rohloff hub is not even available in the U.S. It is a Canondale Europe model. When I had a local Cannondale dealer contact Cannondale USA about availability here I was told they indicated that the only way would be to contact a Cannondale Europe dealer and buy one there for shipment to the U.S.

I ended up getting the Civia Hyland Rohloff which I like very much so far. So Cannondale lost a potential sale. Currently I believe that Thorn has about the best prices available for a complete bike with the Rohloff hub due to current Pound/Dollar exchange rates.

MagWiz

Thank You, I have studied now the manual which came with the bike and it confirms what you say. I have opened the shifter handle and looked for a possibility to change but this assembly can be done only the way how I received it. I will investigate the external gear mechanism next.

MagWiz

On a visit to US last November I was in a large bike shop in Boulder/Colorado. Boulder prides itself as "Bike Capital" and this may well be true given all the universities and mountain biking there. I wanted to see and feel a Rohloff hub there because I had no chance to get my hands at one in Australia. Cannondale was well represented in that shop but not one staff member knew about a Rohloff hub. There were several bikes fitted with Nexus hubs. I wonder whether that is because of a market barrier due to affordability of Rohloff hubs, market acceptance ( I doubt this however) or because of some pressure of big players in the bike industry to block a disruptive product.
I had to wait two months to get it shipped to Australia because Cannondale said apparently that there is so little demand that they need to accumulate orders to make the import economically viable.

tatfiend 

So far as I know the Civia Hyland Rohloff is the only regular production bike available in the U.S. with the hub. They also offer the bike with the Alfine hub and I bet selll a lot more with that option than the Rohloff version. As Civia is a QBP company any dealer who deals with QBP should be able to order it I would think.

Other bikes with the Rohloff hub require personal import or are semi custom so far as I know. I originally contacted Rohloff USA regarding the availability of a production bike in the USA with their hub and the Civia was the only one they were aware of.

thorsteno

The Comooter by Moots is/will be another US produced bike w/Rohloff. Very nice build but I'm guessing price will be steep. Wouldn't want to lock it up outside for long.
https://www.moots.com/#/product/bicyc...lity/comooter/

Blue Roads

The Surly Big Dummy is designed with the Rohloff Speedhub in mind. From their Big Dummy blog post:

Though the Big Dummy is a niche bike with a price tag, it works well as a commuter, not to mention as a cargo bike capable of carrying decent loads. It's also great as simply a general purpose bike and folks have toured on it.

I've got a Big Dummy with a derailleur and am thinking about a Rohloff.

bmorey

Interesting article - thanks. Bottom line: which ever way you cut it, Rolex is a plug-ugly watch. No elegance and shows a lack of taste and breeding in the purchaser. OK for drug dealers and mafiosi

MagWiz

Cable 1 and 14 were not fitted as per manual. I have changed it and the numbering of gears are now ok. The switching direction matches now my intuitive response.
Thanks again.

awc380

What?! This isn't even intelligible....the Germans are floating? Without sinking?
What?!!!