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Truing wheel with straight pull spokes....spokes spinning

Old 10-31-08, 07:44 AM
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mcoomer
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Truing wheel with straight pull spokes....spokes spinning

I've been searching and haven't hit on a good answer yet so I'll try a new post. I have a set of 26" MTB wheels that use straight pull spokes and I'm having trouble keeping the spokes from spinning when I try to turn the nipples. Does anyone have any tips for holding the spokes still? I can't stop them with just my fingers and don't want to grip them with pliers because I'm worried about cutting or deforming them. I'm thinking that I might cut a pancake out of a thin piece of rubber and try sqeezing the spokes with that. I've also emailed DT Swiss to see if they'll break loose with some trade secret or something. If they do I'll pass it along but in the meantime if you have a method that works without damaging the spoke I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks,
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Old 10-31-08, 07:51 AM
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Wrap some pliers with tape to protect the spoke. I think bike tools etc sells some spoke specific vice grips.
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Old 10-31-08, 08:12 AM
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I made a set of pliers and used a flat hard rubber strip I had and glued the to it just for this. Never let your spokes twist the will fail later at the bend from stressing especially if you have thin spokes, I've had this happen before but no longer have this happen since I now keep the spoke from turning.
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Old 10-31-08, 08:13 AM
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Penetrating oil on the nipple, then let sit for a little while. Then when you put in a new spoke put a little bit of lube in the new nipple.
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Old 10-31-08, 08:24 AM
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Old 11-01-08, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mcoomer View Post
..I'm having trouble keeping the spokes from spinning when I try to turn the nipples. Does anyone have any tips for holding the spokes still?
I either stick a small flag made of a short strip of tape on the spoke, or I run a magic marker down the spoke first. Either will let me know when the nipple starts turning WRT the spoke. Then I overshoot the nipple turning, and back off until the spoke is back in neutral.
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Old 11-02-08, 09:55 AM
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Just hold the spoke between your thumb and forefinger. You'll easily feel the twist and can compensate by turning it back. Pliers and other tools can end up damaging the spoke which is an instant stress riser. Tape or magic marker can work if you really need something visual. My experience has been that the amount of twist is small enough that you'll probably not notice it visually.
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Old 11-02-08, 10:11 AM
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A forth hand works well. You could also use a 4" crescent wrench.
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Old 11-02-08, 02:39 PM
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Many tool stores sell "soft jaw" pliers that have plastic jaws. A set of those would hold the spokes well without any risk of marring the metal.

Another option if you're handy with tools would be to make a set of soft jaws for some existing pliers. What you'd want to do is form some sheet aluminium around the jaws and over the back to hold them in place. Or even just clean well and epoxy on pads of aluminium to the jaws then use a file to taper the new jaws so they close properly. Use aluminium that is around 1/16 thick and that is NOT anodized for the bent option and up around 1/8 thick for the glued on option. Thinner will wear through and expose the steel serrations and thicker may not bend without cracking. And the anodized stuff is too slippery. And finally if you do the glued on jaw trick then filing a shallow V in one side will provide more grip by achieving 3 points of contact rather than one. Just keep it shallow enough that the spoke does not fit completely down in the groove. And only one side since it's pretty hard for you to file accurately enough to match both sides.
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Old 11-02-08, 04:04 PM
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Make sure to apply lube to the spoke threads and the interfaces of the rim where the nipple contacts. You can side load the rim while adjusting the spoke to remove some of the tension on the threads and nipple/rim interface. If the spoke still turns, use a soft jaw pliers (plastic should work and not harm spokes) to hold it.
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Old 11-02-08, 08:07 PM
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If these are threaded on the hub side use LocTite on that thread. That's what Velomax uses on the wheels I have, although I think Easton, which bought out Velomax, stopped using threaded hubs.
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Old 11-03-08, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Just hold the spoke between your thumb and forefinger. You'll easily feel the twist and can compensate by turning it back. Pliers and other tools can end up damaging the spoke which is an instant stress riser. Tape or magic marker can work if you really need something visual. My experience has been that the amount of twist is small enough that you'll probably not notice it visually.
The OP didn't say they were "winding up", he said they are "spinning". He has straight pull spokes.

I've been using pliers on my Revolution spokes for years with no problems.
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Old 11-03-08, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
The OP didn't say they were "winding up", he said they are "spinning". He has straight pull spokes.

I've been using pliers on my Revolution spokes for years with no problems.
I read it as radial spokes not straight pull. My mistake. I'd still not use pliers on any spoke, however...not uncushioned anyway.
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Old 11-03-08, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
Wrap some pliers with tape to protect the spoke. I think bike tools etc sells some spoke specific vice grips.
Originally Posted by JTGraphics View Post
I made a set of pliers and used a flat hard rubber strip I had and glued the to it just for this. Never let your spokes twist the will fail later at the bend from stressing especially if you have thin spokes, I've had this happen before but no longer have this happen since I now keep the spoke from turning.

Gotta love the plethroa of useless and incorrect advice passed around here. This is *NOT* the way to preven spoke twist as it does absolutely NOTHING, especially if the spokes aren't bladed.
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Old 11-03-08, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
If these are threaded on the hub side use LocTite on that thread. That's what Velomax uses on the wheels I have, although I think Easton, which bought out Velomax, stopped using threaded hubs.
Just because machine built factory wheelsets use loctite on their spokes dosn't mean you should. Figure out why they do that and you realize why a properly built wheelset does not require them.

Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler View Post
Too bad that only works on bladed spokes.

Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
Many tool stores sell "soft jaw" pliers that have plastic jaws. A set of those would hold the spokes well without any risk of marring the metal.

Another option if you're handy with tools would be to make a set of soft jaws for some existing pliers. What you'd want to do is form some sheet aluminium around the jaws and over the back to hold them in place. Or even just clean well and epoxy on pads of aluminium to the jaws then use a file to taper the new jaws so they close properly. Use aluminium that is around 1/16 thick and that is NOT anodized for the bent option and up around 1/8 thick for the glued on option. Thinner will wear through and expose the steel serrations and thicker may not bend without cracking. And the anodized stuff is too slippery. And finally if you do the glued on jaw trick then filing a shallow V in one side will provide more grip by achieving 3 points of contact rather than one. Just keep it shallow enough that the spoke does not fit completely down in the groove. And only one side since it's pretty hard for you to file accurately enough to match both sides.
100% useless invention.
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Old 11-03-08, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I'd still not use pliers on any spoke, however...not uncushioned anyway.
+1

You never need them.

The only thing you accomplish by resisting spoke twist is damaging them, if you're not then you ain't doing anything lube wouldn't have done or proper technique.

https://yarchive.net/bike/spoke_twist.html
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Old 11-03-08, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
Just because machine built factory wheelsets use loctite on their spokes dosn't mean you should. Figure out why they do that and you realize why a properly built wheelset does not require them.

100% useless invention.
You either don't know how to write or you have no idea what LocTite is, nor how Velomax wheels are built. And Velomax wheels are NOT machine built, I know exactly why it is used, I've rebuilt them myself. It is ABSOLUTELY required for those wheels.
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Old 11-03-08, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
Gotta love the plethroa of useless and incorrect advice passed around here. This is *NOT* the way to preven spoke twist as it does absolutely NOTHING, especially if the spokes aren't bladed.
As usual, you're quick to accuse others of being useless, incorrect, worst advice on the face of the earth, blah blah blah...
but apparently can't be bothered to offer your solution.
Can't you be more constructive?
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Old 11-04-08, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
Gotta love the plethroa of useless and incorrect advice passed around here. This is *NOT* the way to preven spoke twist as it does absolutely NOTHING, especially if the spokes aren't bladed.
Ok you know better than the manufacture so big thumbs up to you AC Specs. PDF
My wheels had spoke freeze applied so taking a spoke wrench to them with out holding the spoke close to the nipple will twist the heck out of them so yes I do hold them on first truing. So in my case not quite useless you can't hold them with your fingers sorry my fingers aren't that strong. I did one with out something to hold it and it did fail so now I do hold them and its never happened again, so I'll contine to do it may way and you do yours.
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Old 11-04-08, 02:11 AM
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twist resist

Originally Posted by mcoomer View Post
I have a set of 26" MTB wheels that use straight pull spokes and I'm
having trouble keeping the spokes from spinning when I try to turn the nipples.
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Too bad that only works on bladed spokes.
I believe he is trying to keep the spoke from rotating(spinning)not twisting.

The tool was made specifically for thin round spokes.

Am Classic seems to think it works. https://www.amclassic.com/faq.html

What is the purpose of using a “Twist Resist” spoke clamp tool when truing American Classic wheels?
A “Twist Resist” spoke clamp tool ensures that the spokes do not twist when tightening the spoke nipples. Failure to use this tool leads to the spokes twisting or winding up, which in turn lead to the wheel coming out of true (spokes untwisting) on your first ride. Using this tool is a key in the proper maintenance of your wheels. Please see the Technical section for a detailed description and photo of this tool.
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Old 11-04-08, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler View Post
Failure to use this tool leads to the spokes twisting or winding up, which in turn lead to the wheel coming out of true (spokes untwisting) on your first ride. Using this tool is a key in the proper maintenance of your wheels. Please see the Technical section for a detailed description and photo of this tool.
Although I can see the usefulness of the tool for straight pull spokes (not a spoke that I would use), it would be entirely unnecessary for conventional hooked spokes. Some part of the spoke is going to wind up no matter how tightly you hold it and holding it that tightly can easily damage the spoke. Better to hold the spoke between your fingers, feel the twist and compensate for it by backing off on the spoke a little after tightening. I've been building wheels this way since 1986 and never have a pop or ping on my first ride of a wheel. No tool other than my thumb and forefinger needed.
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Old 11-04-08, 11:33 AM
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Operator, I don't think you know what straight pull spokes are.
Regular conventional spokes with the J-hook at the hub will twist.
Straight pull will rotate since there is nothing to hold the other end torsionally fixed like the hook on a regular spoke.
Mavic sends a tool with their Ksyrium wheels that works since the spokes are bladed.
Round spokes require some sort of clamping force to prevent rotation.
Do some home work and then come back with YOUR solution.
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Old 11-04-08, 11:36 AM
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this thread is chock full of fail

these are straight pull spokes. he is not taking about binding undoped normal spokes

twist resist tools 100% will stop the spoke from spinning so the wheel can be built/trued,m
without damaging the integrity of said spoke
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Old 11-04-08, 03:35 PM
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I actually had this same problem and just grabbed the spoke with a vice grip. I wouldn't recommend doing this (wink-wink) because it does mar the spoke a little, but I haven't had a spoke break on this wheel yet, after 5+ yrs- and they were double butted.
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Old 11-04-08, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by frankenmike View Post
I actually had this same problem and just grabbed the spoke with a vice grip. I wouldn't recommend doing this (wink-wink) because it does mar the spoke a little, but I haven't had a spoke break on this wheel yet, after 5+ yrs- and they were double butted.
That's why you wrap the jaws with some electical tape unless scratched spokes are the look you are going after.
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