New wheel build-up: recommendations for spokes
 

I hope this is the right forum vs Vintage.

I have a custom touring frame (seven speed friction) and want to build a good, strong and reliable wheelset. Nevertheless, I don't want to make it heavier than needed. Reliability is the first factor. BTW, I'm 220 pounds.

Here's what I have regarding the wheels:

**Campy high flange hubs, 36 holes;
**Mavic GP 4 rims;
**Mavic GEL 280 rims and
**Campy Montreal rims

All rims are new and never mounted to a hub. All are tubular rims.

I was thinking the way to go was the Montreal rims and some sort of double butted Wheelsmith spoke with brass nipples. Cross three.

Any other suggestions as to the type of spoke? I know the DT people offer some sort of bladed spoke, and I'm not adverse to such a spoke, but I wonder if it presents some sort of compromise with reliabiltiy.

How about the rim? I could always go with the GP4 (general purpose 400 g), but wonder if it is too heavy vs the Campy model. I suppose I could mix the GEL 280 (general extra leggeria) in the front and the Montreal in the rear, but I'm not really that familiar with the rims. Probably the most important aspect resulting in wheel reliability is the spoke selection and build.

Thanks
Steve

The biggest factor in making these wheels strong, reliable, and maintenance free is going to be the skill that goes into making them. The best money in my opinion would be put toward finding a good wheel-builder.

I have built several wheels myself, and I can tell you that it takes a feel for wheel building (which I don't really have yet) to make a solid reliable wheel.

If you do go to a builder, they will have their own opinions. If you'd rather do it yourself - here's a few recommendations:

for spokes:

DT aerolite are very nice spokes (expensive though) and they fit through standard hub spoke holes.

If you can afford them, they are the best choice - especially if you are going to build these up yourself. The reason for this is that with a bladed spoke, you can detect any spoke windup visually - so while you're truing your wheel you don't end up with all the spokes twisted.

Wheelsmith has some bladed spokes as well, but I have some and I'm not terribly impressed with the blading - it's not completely smooth.

If you decide to go for double butted, get 2.0-1.8-2.0 - not the really skinny ones.
I've used DT's which are pretty nice, but wheelsmith seem fine too.

With the spokes, the durability is going to come completely from the build quality.

Brass nipples are the way to go.

Get some spoke prep as well - will make your wheels stay true longer.

3 cross is the way to go.

I don't have any experience with those rims, but I'm slightly puzzled by your choice to use tubulars on a touring frame. Seems a bit inconvenient should one get a flat.
But you've probably thought that through.

Rim quality is much more important to wheel quality than the spokes, so if these are used rims, make sure they are perfectly true and in perfect condition.

Happy truing!

I've heard* that "spoke-prep" tends to act like Loc-Tite. You don't want that as you want to be able to true the wheels later on if they need such. Especially with a first-time build. Just a little good oil or grease applied does the trick fine. I've seen many first-time builds stay in great shape, so if you want to go ahead - I won't discourage you.

* - heard -I've never tried it. Too expensive anyway.

The 280s were not designed for touring. They were made for time trialing, climbing or for the track. 170 lbs is the upper limit and at that weight if you hit a pebble, they can go out of true. I would not recommend these for everyday use. The GP4s are pretty much bullet proof and I don't know anything about the Montreals.

Don't quite know about Campy 7-speeds, but the later lot tends to have more dish than their Shimano counterpart. This causes them to build up with greater DS/NDS imbalance which is bad for NDS spoke durability(spocalc will tell you how much). So in the interest of durability it's sensible to use different gauges on DS/NDS, with DS getting a thicker gauge. The theoretical optimum is when NDS spoke cross section is is the same fraction of DS cross section as NDS spoke tension is of DS spoke tension.

Dabac and others. Thanks much.

I won't be building these, but your comments regarding the selection of different spokes makes sense. As far as the theoretical optimum, I'm afraid my mechanic will look at me sideways when the topic is presented!!

Do you think the GEL 280 in the front and the GP4 in the back would be OK, or to avoid the GELs altogether?

Steve

I would stick with the GP4. Although the 280 could probably handle the front, it wears very strangely and very quickly from the brakes and usually needs replacement sooner than the tougher GP4. Since you're heavier and touring is heavier, that will work your front brake a lot.

Spoke Prep is different than Loc-Tite in that it is more brittle and breaks up when you try to retrue the wheels. I have never had any trouble working on my 14 year old wheels which have Spoke Prep.

steve-d;

Why tubular wheels for a touring frame if I can ask? Tubulars are only available in limited widths and none I know of are really designed for touring type use. Also you are unlikely to find a replacement in a rural area bike shop if you do have a problem.

I always have figured that for a touring bike you want the toughest wheels and tires you can find regardles of weight, up to a point.

I guess because I always used 'em. Way back, the clinchers weren't able to take much tp. I suppose it isn't a problem today. Possibly, I should consult my tire distibutor as to whether they are good for non competition use. Thanks for the suggestion.

Steve

For normal everyday road use I would say go with clinchers. They are available in a much wider range of sizes, from about 20mm to 47mm width. Touring bikes typically are set up with widths of 28mm to 38mm or so and there are a lot of excellent touring tires available in that size range. Some have special constructions to reduce the chance of flats, IMO desirable for a touring bike tire.

They will not roll as easy as good tubulars and are more likely to get snakebites if you let the pressure get too low. However easier to repair if you do get a flat and those with Kevlar beads can be folded so you can carry a spare tire, just like tubulars, which is useful when touring.

I think that building a touring bike wheelset with tubular rims in this day and age would be silly. And since you say reliability is the first factor, you should use a cassette hub, not a freewheel-

Absolutely true, but i wouldn't even use butted spokes on a touring wheel.DT Swiss seat better in the hub than wheelsmith spokes and you should make a point of setting the heads of the spokes after the wheel is under tension.
Spoke prep is a must and it remains workable in the future.