Plea: Fellow wrenches, please grease the tough stuff
#1
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Plea: Fellow wrenches, please grease the tough stuff
Hey guys, you know from working on old bikes that eventually what you do is going to be worked on by somebody else somewhere down the line - and that might be 25 years from now.
You would think with all that is known today that everybody would be making liberal use of grease to keep parts from melting together, but I still find stuff dry as a bone and corroding together. It takes a lot of tricks, chemicals, muscle, time, swearing, and praying to get some of this stuff apart and back into workable condition.
After struggling with frozen headsets and pedals this weekend, let me encourage everybody to PLEASE:
Also, remember not to oil before tightening bolts. Oiling allows you to overtighten and when the oil disepates, it is really tough to get the parts to budge. If you want to oil for corrosion protection, do it AFTER you assemble. IMO, every screw and bolt end should have a wipe of grease to keep it from corroding.
Some future wrench will surely notice your work and thank you profusely. Be a cool cat and think of the next wrench. Who knows... it might come back to you for work years from now.
You would think with all that is known today that everybody would be making liberal use of grease to keep parts from melting together, but I still find stuff dry as a bone and corroding together. It takes a lot of tricks, chemicals, muscle, time, swearing, and praying to get some of this stuff apart and back into workable condition.
After struggling with frozen headsets and pedals this weekend, let me encourage everybody to PLEASE:
- grease the stem and stem bolt
- grease pedal bolts. Don't over-tighten
- grease seat post
- grease any point where aluminum comes in contact with steel.
Also, remember not to oil before tightening bolts. Oiling allows you to overtighten and when the oil disepates, it is really tough to get the parts to budge. If you want to oil for corrosion protection, do it AFTER you assemble. IMO, every screw and bolt end should have a wipe of grease to keep it from corroding.
Some future wrench will surely notice your work and thank you profusely. Be a cool cat and think of the next wrench. Who knows... it might come back to you for work years from now.
Last edited by mike; 06-08-08 at 06:32 AM.
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I completely dissemble every part and bolt on bikes when I am not riding them to prevent this from happening. You can never be too careful
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This is not necessarily so. 25 years ago was 1983. Not so long ago really in bike years. I work on bikes a lot older than that that are not seized - especially if some thoughtful mechanic properly greased the parts.
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I'm not saying your situation is impossible, but when you have Toronto winters, snow, ice and wetness all year around unless you're doing post #3 or are exceptionally on top your mainteance. Stuff -will- seize, regardless of many tons of grease was used on the bolt/nut/nipple etc to begin with.
Although I do understand the frustration - which is the main point of #1 anyways. K, nitpicking off.
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Huh? Oiling allows you to CORRECTLY and ACCURATELY tighten the bolts with a torque wrench. That said, I cover bolts with anti-seize.
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Anti-seize is somewhat better than grease for longer term protection. The major issues is galvonic corrosion which occurs when two dissimilar metals are in contact with one another in an electrolytic solution (i.e. dirty water). Anti-seize keeps the water out and does not break down under more conditons than most greases.
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Anti-seize is somewhat better than grease for longer term protection. The major issues is galvonic corrosion which occurs when two dissimilar metals are in contact with one another in an electrolytic solution (i.e. dirty water). Anti-seize keeps the water out and does not break down under more conditons than most greases.
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Amen, Mike! I cannot think of a single bike I've seen sold by a local bike shop that has been properly prepped in this fashion. Take it out of the box, put the parts on, and throw it on the floor is the mentality.
That said, I've seen posts and stems in battered VLW's - posts that were greased 35+ years ago - slide out with hardly a issue. The grease might have deteriorated to an extent in the meantime, but it still served its purpose without issue.
Likewise, I've seen lightly-used steel Treks that are no less then 15 years old with permanently jammed stems and a few other stiff assemblies, thanks to sloppy, careless assembly.
I can see the future frustration...
-Kurt
That said, I've seen posts and stems in battered VLW's - posts that were greased 35+ years ago - slide out with hardly a issue. The grease might have deteriorated to an extent in the meantime, but it still served its purpose without issue.
Likewise, I've seen lightly-used steel Treks that are no less then 15 years old with permanently jammed stems and a few other stiff assemblies, thanks to sloppy, careless assembly.
I can see the future frustration...
-Kurt
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I go one step further and pack it in cosmoline.
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This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
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A lot of the shops dictate what the mechanics are permitted to do in prepping a bike - it's all about the efficiency and the bottom line. For example, one place I know, the mechs aren't allowed to do anything to the wheels of a new bike beyond lateral truing -- so any hops or flat spots that would require taking off the tire go unattended.
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Recently there was a customer who ended up paying $70 in order to put on a bottle cage because the bolt was siezed in the frame, had to be drilled out and and repaired. Grease botle cage bolts, too. Giving every bolt a quick swipe in a tub of grease is worth the seconds it takes.
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Recently there was a customer who ended up paying $70 in order to put on a bottle cage because the bolt was siezed in the frame, had to be drilled out and and repaired. Grease botle cage bolts, too. Giving every bolt a quick swipe in a tub of grease is worth the seconds it takes.
#19
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On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.
If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
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This is something good for me to be reading now - I'm just getting into wrenching around with my bikes, taking apart bottom brackets and headsets to re-grease them and replace bearings as needed. The bike I inherited from my dad likely hadn't been re-greased since it was purchased some 28 years ago. He said they just oiled everything - but the bike has also sat hanging from the garage ceiling for the last 10 or so years. The grease in the bottom bracket was hard, almost the point of being able to be chipped off (it wasn't but another year or two it might have been). The bike was almost a new machine by the time I was done with just the bottom bracket. Next is the head set and then wheel bearings.
As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.
As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.
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A small point to add.....
On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.
If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.
If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
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This is something good for me to be reading now - I'm just getting into wrenching around with my bikes, taking apart bottom brackets and headsets to re-grease them and replace bearings as needed. The bike I inherited from my dad likely hadn't been re-greased since it was purchased some 28 years ago. He said they just oiled everything - but the bike has also sat hanging from the garage ceiling for the last 10 or so years. The grease in the bottom bracket was hard, almost the point of being able to be chipped off (it wasn't but another year or two it might have been). The bike was almost a new machine by the time I was done with just the bottom bracket. Next is the head set and then wheel bearings.
As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.
As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.
You added at least another 30 years to the life of the bike. Want to take it a step further? Write up something about your Dad and the bike, then you and the bike. Roll it up, put it into a plastic bag, and slip it into the post tube for a future owner/collector to find.
I am working on an 80+ year old Columbian right now. It would be really cool to know something about the original owner. How did he get the bike? What did the bike mean to him? Who was it? How long was it in the family before it moved on to the next owner? Of course, it would have probably been wrapped in oilcloth or paraphin canvas instead of a plastic bag.
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A small point to add.....
On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.
If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.
If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
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Tabor is correct. Most torque values assume some sort of lube on the threads. I'm still new to wrenching on bikes, but for cars and places where torque values matter (engine assembly) this is the case.
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Don't think that all forms of thread lube are identical when it comes to torque. "Wet" specs typically assume 30W motor oil. E.g. ARP sells a thread lube that makes a difference of up to 25% when translating torque to bolt stretch (that's what the torque spec is: a rough indication of bolt stretch). So they have two wet specs for their threaded fasteners: one for motor oil and one for their own lube.
On bikes I generally use nickel-based anti-seize and aim for the middle of the manufacturer's torque spec.
On bikes I generally use nickel-based anti-seize and aim for the middle of the manufacturer's torque spec.
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