Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Long or short Rear Derailleur Cage?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Long or short Rear Derailleur Cage?

Old 03-11-09, 06:30 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lexington, KY.
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Long or short Rear Derailleur Cage?

What exactly dictates whether you need a long or short rear derailleur cage?
danny124 is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 06:32 AM
  #2  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
chain wrap capacity and maximum sprocket size.

there's actually short, medium and long.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 06:51 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,653
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 106 Times in 80 Posts
I always try to use a long cage if I have one. Longs always shift well and the biggest reason for shorts is to save weight. In my case weight saving is not that import compared to ease in shifting. Roger
rhenning is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:04 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by rhenning
I always try to use a long cage if I have one. Longs always shift well and the biggest reason for shorts is to save weight. In my case weight saving is not that import compared to ease in shifting. Roger
+1. Long cage rear derailleurs allow a greater range of gearing at a very small penatly in weight and possible loss of face with snobby riding partners.

There are those who claim short cage rds shift slightly faster but an give no reasonable explanation why that should be so. The jockey pulley that actually does the shift is in the same location relative to the chain and cogs with a long cage as it is with a short cage.

Shimano road rear derailleurs are available only in short or long cage. Campy used to be available in short medium and long cage but their current listings is only short and medium. Some Shimano MTB derailleurs are available in short, medium and long also.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:21 AM
  #5  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
and road long is actually the same thing as MTB medium.

the one problem with going with a true long cage is that if you ride offroad, there's a chance of having the RD hit something protruding on the ground.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:31 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
the one problem with going with a true long cage is that if you ride offroad, there's a chance of having the RD hit something protruding on the ground.
I suppose it's possible but in 130,000 miles of long cage road use, it's never happened to me.

The only rear derailleur damage I've ever had was due to a piece of wire being thrown up by the front wheel into the chain that went through the derailleur and wiped it out. The cage length had nothing to do with it.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:48 AM
  #7  
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 8,401

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Lance uses a short cage on his road bike, if that matters to you.

But, to answer the question. a long cage is typically required whenever you have a triple crank, or if you have a wide enough range of gears with a double or compact double.

Based on guidance I received from my bike shop, I needed a long cage for my compact double (50/34) with an 11-28 cassette. But I wanted one anyway, as it means I can choose whatever gearing I want without needing to be concerned with swapping the derailleur. If I had been building a standard double (52-39 or 53-39), or gone with a narrower range cassette, I could have gotten by with a short cage.

For most people, I would suggest a long cage... other than the potential "teasing" and minimal weight issues mentioned above.
Little Darwin is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 10:16 AM
  #8  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lexington, KY.
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a 53-39 crankset with a 12-23 cassette. Any help?
danny124 is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 10:24 AM
  #9  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
you can get away with short.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 10:27 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
JTGraphics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 2,678
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by danny124
I have a 53-39 crankset with a 12-23 cassette. Any help?
Short OK for that combo.
Long if you want to use a triple up front or anything larger than a 28 in back.
__________________
It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
https://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm
JTGraphics is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 10:45 AM
  #11  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Road short, Road long, MTB medium, MTB long
Maximum sprocket: 27T, 27T, 34T, 34T
Total chain wrap capacity: 29T, 37T, 33T, 45T

but that's just the shimano tech docs.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 03:11 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
sunburst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,759

Bikes: Giant, Peugeots, Motobecanes, Kona, Specialized, Bike Friday, Ironhorse, Royal Scot, Schwinns

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times in 51 Posts
I got a free bike from a neighbor. It evidently had a medium or short derailleur. When I shifted to the 32 cog in the rear, the derailleur stretched forward as far as possible, then jammed up in the gears. I had to remove the rear wheel to get it unstuck. I immediately got it - now I know what long-cage derailleurs are for.
sunburst is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 03:19 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by sunburst
I got a free bike from a neighbor. It evidently had a medium or short derailleur. When I shifted to the 32 cog in the rear, the derailleur stretched forward as far as possible, then jammed up in the gears. I had to remove the rear wheel to get it unstuck. I immediately got it - now I know what long-cage derailleurs are for.
No, actually for a 32 you need a mountain type derailleur. A long cage road derailleur is rated for a maximum of 27 teeth, although a road derailleur will usually work with up to 30 teeth on the largest cog.
A mountain derailleur will work with a 34. (see AEO's last post above).
Al1943 is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:21 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
sunburst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,759

Bikes: Giant, Peugeots, Motobecanes, Kona, Specialized, Bike Friday, Ironhorse, Royal Scot, Schwinns

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by Al1943
No, actually for a 32 you need a mountain type derailleur. A long cage road derailleur is rated for a maximum of 27 teeth, although a road derailleur will usually work with up to 30 teeth on the largest cog.
A mountain derailleur will work with a 34. (see AEO's last post above).
That figures. This old Peugeot road bike is something of a franken-bike. The previous owner put a triple mt. crank (removing the inner ring) on a road bike (japanese on a french spindle so it wobbles!). And he put a big honking Shimano freewheel (12-32). He also replaced the derailleur with an old Shimano SIS, whereas should have installed the mountain variety.

At any rate, I finally got it to shift today, but had to replace the rear wheel (I had one with a smaller freewheel), and then had to replace the cable, then clean, lube and adjust the derailleur. It's all working fine now.
sunburst is offline  
Old 03-11-09, 07:32 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 12,098

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1240 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by sunburst
I got a free bike from a neighbor. It evidently had a medium or short derailleur. When I shifted to the 32 cog in the rear, the derailleur stretched forward as far as possible, then jammed up in the gears. I had to remove the rear wheel to get it unstuck. I immediately got it - now I know what long-cage derailleurs are for.
Actually, the bigger problem you have is that the chain is too short for the gear combo you tried to use. Were you using your largest chainring and the 32 in the back at the same time? If the chain was sized for a normal road cassette, it would likely have been too short to work with the 32 tooth cog and the original big ring. When using a rear cog too big for the derailler the jockey wheel will rub against the cog making an annoying noise and quickly wearing the jockey wheel down.
joejack951 is offline  
Old 03-13-09, 07:14 PM
  #16  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14

Bikes: Trek 4300; Trek 1.2; Trek Madone 6.5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm running a DA 53-39 crank with a DA short cage derailleur and a SRAM Red 11-28 and it works fine althought it did take some work on the adjustments.
bjohnston is offline  
Old 03-13-09, 07:29 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by bjohnston
I'm running a DA 53-39 crank with a DA short cage derailleur and a SRAM Red 11-28 and it works fine althought it did take some work on the adjustments.
If you sized the chain long enough to allow the big-big combination (53-28), which for mechanical safety you really should, you probably have the chain go completely slack in 39-11 and maybe in 39-12. No big deal there.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-13-09, 08:14 PM
  #18  
Council of the Elders
 
billydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,759

Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Little Darwin
....
Based on guidance I received from my bike shop, I needed a long cage for my compact double (50/34) with an 11-28 cassette. But I wanted one anyway, as it means I can choose whatever gearing I want without needing to be concerned with swapping the derailleur. ....
Funny, I have exactly that combo (50/34 and 11-28) and the short cage RD works fine for me. I specifically asked my mech if I needed a long derailer with the 11-28 and he said "no". He did look carefully at the chain length though, although he did not change it, as I was changing from 53/39, 12-25.

Last edited by billydonn; 03-13-09 at 08:22 PM.
billydonn is offline  
Old 03-13-09, 09:16 PM
  #19  
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 8,401

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by billydonn
Funny, I have exactly that combo (50/34 and 11-28) and the short cage RD works fine for me. I specifically asked my mech if I needed a long derailer with the 11-28 and he said "no". He did look carefully at the chain length though, although he did not change it, as I was changing from 53/39, 12-25.
It is obviously a combination that you can tweak to work, and most people configure their compacts with short cage derailleurs regardless of which cassette they use... almost anything could be made to work (short of a triple) with a short cage as long as you are good at getting the chain length right... The worst that can happen is low tension on the small/small combo or extreme tension on the big/big. Both gear combinations that should see little or no usage anyway. I see the critical adjustment as avoiding being too tight in the big/big, to avoid breaking the chain or derailleur if you happen to shift into that combination and the chain is too short to work.

Assuming the earlier message that a 29 tooth chain wrap is the official maximum for a road short cage, and since the difference between 50x28 and 34x11 is 78-45=33 it is actually a bit outside of the spec. But, the specs are usually a bit conservative, both on chain wrap and on maximum cog size.

As in many things cycling, if it works for you, then there is obviously no problem.
Little Darwin is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 07:26 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by Little Darwin
I see the critical adjustment as avoiding being too tight in the big/big, to avoid breaking the chain or derailleur if you happen to shift into that combination and the chain is too short to work.
+1 and that's why I and others recommend the chain ALWAYS be sized long enough to allow big-big.

I've heard the argument that "I never use that combination" and, it's correct that you shouldn't. However, everyone has occasional brief episodes of brain-fade so someday you will try.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 10:16 AM
  #21  
Farmer tan
 
f4rrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 7,986

Bikes: Allez, SuperSix Evo

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2870 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Little Darwin
...29 tooth chain wrap is the official maximum for a road short cage...
Is this really true? My 2008 Allez triple came stock with 52-42-30 (22 tooth difference) and an SRAM 12-26 (14 tooth difference). Total tooth difference would be 22+14 = 34. The specialized site specs a short cage Tiagra RD. Do you think that's a misprint? I'm looking to go to a road double soon.
f4rrest is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 10:20 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by f4rrest
Is this really true? My 2008 Allez triple came stock with 52-42-30 (22 tooth difference) and an SRAM 12-26 (14 tooth difference). Total tooth difference would be 22+14 = 34. The specialized site specs a short cage Tiagra RD. Do you think that's a misprint? I'm looking to go to a road double soon.
It's either a mis-print or the Allez comes with a double or triple crank and you looked at the specs for the wrong model. Any triple crank Shimano drivetrain is going to come OEM with a long cage rd.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 10:45 AM
  #23  
Pilot Deeper
 
flian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Suthrun Elanoy
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Al1943
No, actually for a 32 you need a mountain type derailleur. A long cage road derailleur is rated for a maximum of 27 teeth, although a road derailleur will usually work with up to 30 teeth on the largest cog.
I have a longcage road RD for a 32. A-OK. Original factory set-up.
flian is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 11:21 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The type of riding that you do most: hills, trails, street, all around. On my road bike I finally decided to put a Shimano XT rear derailleur on it for the sake of having a variety of cassette usage. Because I like the freedom having an 11-32 when I need it, or a 12-34, or just a 12-23, so the longer cage allow for the versitillity.
rmwun54 is offline  
Old 03-14-09, 02:19 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by flian
I have a longcage road RD for a 32. A-OK. Original factory set-up.
What model derailleur is it. Shimano's road derailleurs are spec'd for a 27t maximum sized cog, but can take at least a 28 and probably a 30.
Al1943 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.