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water bottle attaching point

Old 03-15-09, 05:02 PM
  #1  
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water bottle attaching point

I have a very cool vintage steel bike that I ride a lot. It is a non-touring frame and has no braze ons for a water bottle attachment. I have looked at clamp on bottle cages but they don't do much for me so I was considering using a type of industrial pop rivet that, when it is installed, leaves a threaded hole.
I would have to drill a pair of slightly oversize holes in the downtube and install this rivet using a special tool (my buddy owns a fastener shop so no problem there) so I guess my question is: would I compromise the tubing strength in any way? It is 531 double butted tubing and I would try and keep the drill hole as small as possible. This rivet is very industrial and would be stainless steel so I don't think corrosion would be an issue.

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Old 03-15-09, 05:17 PM
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It would likely be O.K. If it's done properly. I did it to an old steel frame of mine years ago with no ill effects. I would think it's not going to do anything for the collectors value of your frame though (if that might be an issue).
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Old 03-15-09, 05:24 PM
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Future value is of little importance..I'm thirsty is the real issue. It was 85 today and I did 30 miles in jeans and a t-shirt in a remote area..I was considering Fl pond water..(certain death)!

Hey Norwood..I live in Hastings Fl and am a huge office fan.. I would die for Pam

Mike
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Old 03-15-09, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bykemike View Post
Future value is of little importance..I'm thirsty is the real issue. It was 85 today and I did 30 miles in jeans and a t-shirt in a remote area..I was considering Fl pond water..(certain death)!

Hey Norwood..I live in Hastings Fl and am a huge office fan.. I would die for Pam

Mike
The low here a few days ago was about 6 deg. F

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Old 03-15-09, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bykemike View Post
I have a very cool vintage steel bike that I ride a lot. It is a non-touring frame and has no braze ons for a water bottle attachment. I have looked at clamp on bottle cages but they don't do much for me so I was considering using a type of industrial pop rivet that, when it is installed, leaves a threaded hole.
I would have to drill a pair of slightly oversize holes in the downtube and install this rivet using a special tool (my buddy owns a fastener shop so no problem there) so I guess my question is: would I compromise the tubing strength in any way? It is 531 double butted tubing and I would try and keep the drill hole as small as possible. This rivet is very industrial and would be stainless steel so I don't think corrosion would be an issue.

Mike
These are commonly called "rivnuts" and I've seen them installed on a few bikes for bottle mounts. They're rarely a problem since they're usually installed on low-stress areas of the tube. It's still a potential failure point, so inspect the area around the rivnut for stress cracks periodically. Older 531 tubing is a little thicker than modern tubes, so it should be OK.

On the other hand, would you consider a Camelbak? Or if you're into vintage stuff, how about putting a bottle on the handlebar with this: http://www.velo-orange.com/vohatowaboca.html ?
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Old 03-15-09, 05:36 PM
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The fasteners are called Riv-Nuts (I assume your buddy knows that) and you need them threaded M5x.8 mm for standard water bottle bolts. SAE 10-32 is close but M5X.8 is the correct size. As you noted, drill the minium size holes for the Riv-nuts and crimp them down firmly. They should not compromise your frame if the holes are drilled smoothly.

BTW, an alternative is a Camelback. More capacity and no drilling.
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Old 03-15-09, 05:37 PM
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Hey, Jeff, we must have been typing at the same time.
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Old 03-15-09, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
These are commonly called "rivnuts" and I've seen them installed on a few bikes for bottle mounts. They're rarely a problem since they're usually installed on low-stress areas of the tube. It's still a potential failure point, so inspect the area around the rivnut for stress cracks periodically. Older 531 tubing is a little thicker than modern tubes, so it should be OK.

On the other hand, would you consider a Camelbak? Or if you're into vintage stuff, how about putting a bottle on the handlebar with this: http://www.velo-orange.com/vohatowaboca.html ?
There should be no problem drilling and rivetting to small holes in the middle of your downtube, privided you are careful and drill a neat hole.

However, I was also thinking that handlebar mounts are very 'retro cool'... thats all you see in the old TdF pictures... the ones where they are smoking cigarettes while they ride
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Old 03-15-09, 05:48 PM
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I actually bought one of the handlebar holders but it just isn't me..or at least not right now so I gave it to a friend.
The camelback is a good idea, I use one while dirt biking but I would rather be unemcumbered while pedaling. I like the feedback so far..I'm thinking two bottles now.

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Old 03-15-09, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Hey, Jeff, we must have been typing at the same time.
Would you please stop listening to the voices in my head!

My mom had a saying for this kind of thing: "Two minds with hardly any thought at all."
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Old 03-15-09, 06:12 PM
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There's no way I'd drill holes for water bottle cages in the seat tube and down tube of my 1972 chrome Paramount. My brother-in-law, a triathlete, suggested the Profile Design Aqua Rack.

For me, it's the perfect solution.

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Old 03-15-09, 06:54 PM
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I've drilled and installed rivnuts in older frames with no problems either. It's the newer, thinner tubes you have to be wary of. Not wanting to spend 20$ on a box of 10 5mm rivnuts and the special mandrel that has to go on the tool, I just used 10-32 that I already had. A little non standard, but it has not been an issue. I used screws with phillips heads on them, so I can still use my multi-tool should the need ever present itself.
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Old 03-16-09, 02:26 AM
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I recently got a few pairs of Zefal's Gizmo, which are small plastic bottle mounts that strap onto any frame tube. They mount very securely because you can get the size that matches the tube perfectly, and they don't really look out of place. I've now got another set on order to put a third water bottle under the down tube of another bike. They're easy to find in Europe, hopefully there are also US dealers, here's a link to a UK web-store. You can see them on a frame tube in this bad photo.
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Old 03-16-09, 02:57 AM
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Old 03-16-09, 04:27 AM
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Thanks Cobba! and my wife always says "why do you spend so much time on that bike forum?"

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Old 03-16-09, 04:50 AM
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I've used the Minoura brand holder on several frames now...works great, easy to install, very stable.
It is widely available too!
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