Worse invention
03-31-09, 08:14 PM
#26
You Know!? For Kids!
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
03-31-09, 08:19 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 5,104
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Recent stuff
Dual control MTB levers, Rapid rise, The new XTR Titantium/carbon middle chainring, Dura Ace 7900
Older stuff
Front Freewheel System/Positron, biopace, really a lot of things that were only produced for a year or two
Dual control MTB levers, Rapid rise, The new XTR Titantium/carbon middle chainring, Dura Ace 7900
Older stuff
Front Freewheel System/Positron, biopace, really a lot of things that were only produced for a year or two
03-31-09, 08:22 PM
#28
Pwnerer
What was so bad about Positron?
Was it that with the freewheel in the bottom bracket, if the chain got caught you couldn't coast and had to listen to the horrific noise your drivetrain made as it self destructed?
To be fair to Shimano, Sachs tried that once too.
Was it that with the freewheel in the bottom bracket, if the chain got caught you couldn't coast and had to listen to the horrific noise your drivetrain made as it self destructed?
To be fair to Shimano, Sachs tried that once too.
Last edited by Wordbiker; 03-31-09 at 08:33 PM.
03-31-09, 08:31 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 5,104
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
how about that piano wire shift system that you can't obtain anymore. (referring to positron)
03-31-09, 08:34 PM
#30
Pwnerer
03-31-09, 08:36 PM
#31
surly old man
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 3,392
Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times
in
18 Posts
What about the small-pitch chain/drivetrain system. Microdrive, or something? Not even sure it was Shimano anymore.
jim
jim
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
03-31-09, 08:48 PM
#33
Pwnerer
Microdrive wasn't such a bad idea. By downsizing the drivetrain tooth count, you retained the same gear ratioss and saved some weight, albeit at the cost of some durability. It's still around but no longer considered innovative so there's no fancy marketing term for it.
EDIT: I need to quit tuning in to Sixty's brain wavelength.
03-31-09, 08:55 PM
#34
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
WP - There seems to be a signal delay on your end too.
03-31-09, 09:01 PM
#36
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
03-31-09, 09:37 PM
#37
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,837
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12768 Post(s)
Liked 7,683 Times
in
4,078 Posts
shifter/brake pods get my vote. Nazzty!
I'm riding Biopace on one of my rigs, prefer round rings, but the Bio ain't THAT bad, if you ask me.
I've had very little personal experience with rapid rise, but I can't imagine hating it more than the pods.
I'm riding Biopace on one of my rigs, prefer round rings, but the Bio ain't THAT bad, if you ask me.
I've had very little personal experience with rapid rise, but I can't imagine hating it more than the pods.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 03-31-09 at 09:40 PM.
03-31-09, 10:40 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I can't agree with the hate on brifters. My last bike had friction shifters on the bars and I frigging hated it.
I like brifters in concept, but I'm not a fan of Shimano STI. Who got the bright idea of making the break lever such that I might brake while shifting is beyond me.
If I've got the cash I'd swap out the FD/RD, brakes and the brifters for a SRAM rival in an instant.
I like brifters in concept, but I'm not a fan of Shimano STI. Who got the bright idea of making the break lever such that I might brake while shifting is beyond me.
If I've got the cash I'd swap out the FD/RD, brakes and the brifters for a SRAM rival in an instant.
04-01-09, 01:43 AM
#41
Senior Member
I could never feel the difference in Biopace rings and I've had a few bikes with them. Funny thing though, they seem to work with singlespeeds and fixies. Don't know why they work, but Sheldon said they would, so I kept them when converting to one of each.
04-01-09, 03:11 AM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BC
Posts: 85
Bikes: Nishiki Superbe, Marinoni Custom SL, Giant TCR Hybrid, Giant TCR 0 Team, Colnago Dream Plus, Trek 2000, Centurion Ironman Master. Giant Cypress-R CX, Kona Muni-Mula ("Colonel Mustard"), Giant TCR2, Giant Defy Alliance 0, Giant TCR Advanced SL 1 ISP
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Sticking to the topic: between the two, Biopace rings are the greater offender. While the underlying concept appeared valid (evening out the power stroke), the rings were simply not designed to work with a variety of different body geometries; applying the same standardised eccentricity to a 6'2" vs. a 5'0" rider does not make sense. In order for the concept to work, the chainring's eccentricity would have to be customised to the individual cyclist's length of femur, tibia, etc. Some cyclists still like them, but the rings do not encourage learning a good spin that is required for efficient general cycling. Biopace probably hurt more knees than it claimed to save. Thank ye gawds it's not being made any more. My 2 cents.
04-01-09, 07:21 AM
#43
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,625
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1668 Post(s)
Liked 1,820 Times
in
1,058 Posts
Oh, easily the early eight-speed hubs. They had high drag, needed tools to disconnect and had bizarre 22%-16%-14%-18%-22%-16%-14% gear steps. These issues weren't problems for the owners for very long, though, since the hubs commited hari-kiri by injesting water and dirt.
Shimano has released eleven different versions of eight speed hubs during the product's not-so-long life and has fixed or at least improved everything but the funky gear ratios.
tcs
Shimano has released eleven different versions of eight speed hubs during the product's not-so-long life and has fixed or at least improved everything but the funky gear ratios.
tcs
04-01-09, 07:31 AM
#44
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
Attention all Bike Mechanics!
In your honest to God opinions, would you say that the worse thing to come out of japan's component giant, Shimano is their "rapid rise" derailleur (AKA Crapid rise, Rapid Demise, etc.) or their "Biopace" chain rings??
Mechanics at our shop have quarreled over this topic for eons, and now we want others to chime in!
In your honest to God opinions, would you say that the worse thing to come out of japan's component giant, Shimano is their "rapid rise" derailleur (AKA Crapid rise, Rapid Demise, etc.) or their "Biopace" chain rings??
Mechanics at our shop have quarreled over this topic for eons, and now we want others to chime in!
Who in their right mind would take a brake and mount it down were all of the slop of the world collects? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
04-01-09, 07:43 AM
#46
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
I was in the bike business from 1978 through 1984. I saw a few funny things come through then. SunTour had front derailleurs that upshifted when you reduced cable tension. They weren't terrible, but they didn't have any real advantage except that if you were new to gears on a bicycle, the directions of the shifters were less confusing.
...the FD can't force the derailer cage over far enough to derail the chain on to the lowest front chain ring. You don't make the shift, the chain just makes a lot of clattering noises and you usually ended up bogged down at the bottom of a hill.Shifting from low gears to high gears, however, is seldom a high torque situation. A very light spring can move the derailer and chain up to the high gears with ease. Think of how easy it is to shift the rear derailer to higher gears and you'll see what I mean. Even shifting the front isn't that hard.
The SunTour high normal derailer allowed you use the cable, which develops much more force, to drag the chain into low gears...just like the rear derailer does. It worked quite well and allowed for forced low gear bailouts. That's one of the reasons that I think that Rapid Rise is stupid. You've traded the advantage of using the cable force for the hard shifts to depending on the return spring. You don't need the cable to drag the chain off the cogs in the cassette to higher gears...those shifts are easy.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
04-01-09, 07:51 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
Campy still uses that construction for their hubs. Probably because Shimano had design patents on their method of bolting on the freehub body and using outboard bearings. Campy also uses an aluminum freehub body.
04-01-09, 07:54 AM
#49
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
Yep... that was Shimano but Shelbroco offered an even better and more compact system than Shimano with their patented nanodrive.
Nanodrive
Nanodrive
Chains, chainrings and cassettes still used the same pitch as all derailered bikes.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
04-01-09, 08:09 AM
#50
Senior Member
I like Biopace but have never tried Rapid Rise.