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Possible misuse of brake cable hangar

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Possible misuse of brake cable hangar

Old 04-02-09, 08:37 PM
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vengeful_lemon
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Possible misuse of brake cable hangar

Hey there!
I've been researching a new build, which would include a 1" threadless fork. This is kind of the odd size, and I was hoping to use the seatpost-collar-as-headset-preload-trick ala Sheldon Brown
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html#threadless
but I don't want to use a shim for a 1-1/8th" seatpost collar. No need to make a beautiful hack more kludgy, right?
So, I was thinking that I could actually us the canti brake cable hangar to hold the preload on the headset!
see http://www.velo-orange.com/psfrcaha.html

I suppose my question is: has anyone done this before? Will it kill me? Is this a really dumb idea?

thanks!

Last edited by vengeful_lemon; 04-02-09 at 08:41 PM. Reason: hit the wrong button and submitted an almost empty post!
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Old 04-02-09, 09:15 PM
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Unless you're downhill riding on this (which I doubt considering the 1" headset), I'm about 98% sure that if it doesn't work all that will happen is you'll notice the headset start to loosen up and will need to try something else. The odds that this would fail catastrophically are slim.

Then again, they aren't my teeth, so it's easier to be cavalier.
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Old 04-02-09, 10:04 PM
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FWIW, when I changed stems and spacers recently, the guy in the LBS asked me if I knew how to set the preload on the headset and I told him it was my cyclocross bike and I had a canti brake cable hanger (like the one you are thinking of) and so the preload should be held in check even though i'd removed the stem and spacers. His response was that, "yeah, most of the time they don't clamp tight enough to hold it so it might have moved on you." In my case, it turned out it had indeed held it just fine - but, and big but here, I didn't ride the bike with just that clamp in place! I just had it rolling around my garage a while until I set up the new stem. Hmm...
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Old 04-02-09, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
FWIW, when I changed stems and spacers recently, the guy in the LBS asked me if I knew how to set the preload on the headset and I told him it was my cyclocross bike and I had a canti brake cable hanger (like the one you are thinking of) and so the preload should be held in check even though i'd removed the stem and spacers. His response was that, "yeah, most of the time they don't clamp tight enough to hold it so it might have moved on you." In my case, it turned out it had indeed held it just fine - but, and big but here, I didn't ride the bike with just that clamp in place! I just had it rolling around my garage a while until I set up the new stem. Hmm...
Get it tight and it is fine. For perspective, how many bolts are securing your seat post (supporting much of your body weight). My guess is one.
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Old 04-03-09, 02:38 AM
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It should be fine. The riding forces don't pull the fork down against it, so there's no reason for it to move.
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Old 04-03-09, 03:17 AM
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Interesting that on that link Sheldon says that he doesn't recommend doing it on 1" steerers but doesn't say why.
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Old 04-03-09, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bailout View Post
Interesting that on that link Sheldon says that he doesn't recommend doing it on 1" steerers but doesn't say why.
probably because of the surface area and clamping force differences between a 1" and 1-1/8"
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Old 04-03-09, 05:33 AM
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It's not just the clamping force. There is also a strength issue. I'm no Damon Rinard, but it seems to me that a 1" steerer is more likely to bend in a collision or just hard riding.

If you think about bending a tube, the outside of the bend is in tension, the inside of the bend is in compression. Alloy tubes are generally stronger in tension than in compression. Having a stack of spacers adds strength to the "stack" by moving the compressive side of the bending movement outside of the steerer tube walls, which makes more of the force a tension force on the tube itself.

You didn't say where the bike would be ridden, but I don't know of any 1" mountain bike steerers, so it may not be such an issue. I might do it as a trial fit beore cutting the steerer tube, but I don't know if I'd do it on a permanent basis.
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Old 04-03-09, 09:36 AM
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Use another stem and flat bar. You can mount some lights, or rocket launchers. Get creative.
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Old 04-03-09, 11:17 AM
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There are 1" seat tube collars. I found this one that is probably for a BMX bike but should work
http://smartbikeparts.com/search_details.php?itm=ST0571

Might be a little more secure than a cable hanger.
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Old 04-03-09, 11:21 AM
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Don't do it, the 1" steerer is much weaker due to the diameter of the tube.
An aluminum 1" steerer would be even worse than a steel one.

As was pointed out earlier, from your link:
" I do not recommend this approach for carbon fiber steerers, nor for 1" steeerers.."
Sutherland's also has recommended maximum lengths for steerer tube spacing based on diameter.
Proper shims, spacers and stem should ensure a safe, clean and comfortable solution.
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Old 04-03-09, 07:11 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. To clear some stuff up:

The fork in question is a steel Bob Jackson Cycles World Tour fork. The bike's intended use is as a travel bike for light-load road touring and short sections of dirt road (Hawaiiwrench - you'd know what I meant if I said haul cane road, right? the first use of this bike will be this summer when I visit my folks on Kauai.)

Kotts, I am having a hard time understanding some of the forces involved, which is why I asked. Sounds like it might be a bad idea, but... but...
I think I understand why spacers may do double duty by absorbing some force, so I guess they're a good idea. As a side note, I was considering not cutting the fork...

Gonzo Bob: interesting to see a 1" collar...

Cynikal: a second stem might be an option, but I had planned to use a large, boxy, rando-style bar bag...

Hawaiiwrench: thanks for the warnings. I did see the warning on Sheldon's site, but I assumed it was a warning against someone trying to use a 1-1/8th" collar on a 1" fork, since his example is for a 1-18th"...

Your warnings have mostly dissuaded me, but if this build happens, and if I try this stupidity and live, I'll let everyone know.

thanks!
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Old 04-03-09, 09:04 PM
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Cool, my grandma was from Hanapepe.
Why don't you want to use spacers?
They look nicer than exposed steerer imo.
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Old 04-04-09, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawaiiwrench View Post
Sutherland's also has recommended maximum lengths for steerer tube spacing based on diameter.

Proper shims, spacers and stem should ensure a safe, clean and comfortable solution.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Takes all the fun out of things though.
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Old 04-04-09, 07:53 AM
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HawaiiWrench: yeah, cool town. Why no spacers? What dobber said - more fun to do something weird. Also, i think it'd be nice for a travel bike to not have to zip tie the spacers together (or let them bounce around the box) when the fork is off and it's all packed up. This is of course really minor... It'd also be handy for dialing in bar height...
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Old 04-04-09, 07:56 AM
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PS: sheldon's 9-speed suspension fork bianchi mountain bike used this kind of hack also?
http://www.sheldonbrown.org/bass/pag...-9speed01.html
seems like that steerer would get some stress... wonder how much it was used?
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Old 04-04-09, 01:32 PM
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Judging by the slicks it was only on the street, but it is a real PITA to adjust the headset that way.
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