TA Carmina Users ?
 

Anyone use a TA Carmina? I'm considering the triple, as it's one of two options for a 185mm length.(High Sierra Cycles the other). But, I'm finding a striking bit of conflicting information on the web. Every web site I see in the US or UK says the Axix BB for it is JIS taper. A well known American web site web site says the crank is JIS. This makes no sense, as why would TA make their crank and BB with different tapers?

I also considered their Vortex crank, which clearly states it's ISO. Again, how could their Axix BB's be JIS then? Hmmm.


So, I email TA in France. It turns out they are aware of the mis-information being spread, as their BB's and cranks are ISO tapers ! This is from Amelie Nivart of TA.


The American web site states the Carmina triple takes a 119mm BB. TA says it still takes a 113.

Does anyone actually have one that they've installed recently? I'm rather confused and short of buying a bunch of bottom brackets, I don't know what to do. I really don't want to use an ISO BB anyways, as they are all very high priced, and I don't ride enough to justify a $150 BB and new tools for it.


The High Sierra Cycles option looks like it may be better as at least they know what taper and BB to use. The BB's are reasonable.

I am glad that Carmina turns out to be ISO! I bought an Axix Light in the past and found it to be an excellent investment. The sealing against mud and water has been very good. The BB can be shifted left and right to tweak the chainline. The bearings can be changed and so can the spindle. Currently, I am using 132 mm spindle, not normally available for other BBs.

I have dealt with French, and lived in France, and can tell you these folks get easily confused when communicating in English.
I have researched these cranks, and know for certain that they are JIS taper. The only ISO taper crank manufacturer by and large is Campagnolo.

My advice is, give Peter White a call. He deals a lot with TA, sells Carmina in the US, and knows his stuff. Here is his web-site:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/carmina.asp

Don't try to email him, just call. He'll take care of your problem.

I thought the Axix Pro was the one where it could be moved l/r as it used two lockrings? The Axix Light in photos shows a lip on the drive side, so it's (to the)right adjustable only. Wait a minute.... there's two versions shown of the Axix Light on the web..... one has the double lockrings like the Axix Pro, the other has a lip on the drive side cup. What's what?

I'm not too sure of using an Axix because of the aluminum lockring. In the days when cranks used lockrings on the BB's, I always disliked the lockring because it was often hard to get a good grip on the lockring tool as it was so close to the frame..... or you'd end up with the tool slipping.

In your experience is the Axix lockring rugged enough, as it's aluminum? I could always replace it with a steel one though. Does the Park BBT- 7 http://www.parktool.com/products/det...=25&item=BBT-7 fit ?

Are the bearings easy to replace and find ?

Thanks for the help.

It occurred to me that maybe the TA cranks are and BB's are a little bit of each but none in particular. :) Meaning..... ISO and JIS isn't an exact science in practice, so what the taper actually is may not be exactly either one. Who knows. As long as the taper fits without either bottoming out or not going in very far..... the label really doesn't matter. If you you access to a bunch of BB's, then it's no problem. Most of us don't though.

If TA is off in their descriptions.... they really go all-out then!! I'm not saying I disagree with you or have any other intention here... but check out their PDF for the new Vortex crank clearly stating ISO. http://www.codagex.com/hardware/broc...roducts_NL.pdf

I know of Peter White. I talked to him years ago about wheels on the phone and he's great to talk to. Email's are a short reply only. Email is cold. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this on my own as much as I can though, as I wouldn't be buying the crank or BB from him.

I was also confused, but then realized that the photos provided an illusion of a lip. Actually, both cups come with notched lockrings. For extra margin in adjustments, TA offers inner spacers that go inside the cups. I made a couple of such ring spacers myself. My cups are silver.


I had no problems with durability and, at some point, I experimented with BB a lot and took it multiple times out. I indeed use BBT-7 which I had to squeeze a bit inside a vise to lower its diameter to fit the Axix lockrings.

The bearings are standard. I don't have the number at hand but you can get them everywhere, including ceramic etc.

2_i ..... Thanks for the reply. The version I first saw was one like this. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/TA...et/5300005625/
http://www.bikeplus.co.uk/cgi-bin/qu...&affiliate_id=
Maybe this was an older version, because it uses a second tool on the drive side cup, it looks like it may be the Shimano Cartridge type tool.

The there's the version talked about here, which has the double lockring.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bottombrackets.asp

Did you need to face your bottom bracket shell ? I ask because I read this article from Peter White saying they needed to be perfect or the bearings may misalign and wear out prematurely.
http://search.bikelist.org/beta/TreeView.aspx?id=98494

I thought that the Park tool may work, as TA also uses an XTR type tool for the Carmina lockrings.

3rd, expensive option.

http://zinncycles.pinnaclecart.com/i...&id=1&parent=2

$$$ Ouch! I'm sticking with the square taper design.... it isn't perfect, but I don't trust that OBB designs will be around that long either as Shimano likes to reinvent things that aren't broken!

Regarding any TA questions, you can also call Mike Barry in Toronto:

http://www.bikespecialties.com

That is where I've got my Axix.


Indeed, this one is with a lip! Otherwise, even with the lockrings I have used a Shimano type tool to screw the cups in and out.

Thanks for the links. Coincidentally, I will be in the Croydon area later this summer and will surely check out those TA tools.


Indeed, this is what I have.

I did not do a thing to the shell. Over 8 years I had that BB on the bike, I remember changing the bearings once, and it could be twice, but because of water damage - I use that bike round the year and water might enter down the seat tube as well. The bearings cost a few $ and are the same as used in other square taper BBs with replaceable bearings - nothing really to lose sleep over.

uses Sram/Truvativ BB.

The spare bearings I have are alternatively marked as 6903 and 61903.

Thanks for that. As you say... easy to find bearings and the same size Phil BB's use. The funny thing about a Phil BB is the axle is completely smooth, it's quite easy to move the axle left/right just by tapping the ends if it. There's nothing holding the bearings from moving along the axle. It appears the TA isn't like this, which I prefer.

http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail...ePhilWood2.jpg

I only wish I didn't have to buy yet another tool. These "one more's" add up to a tool chest !

It seems I have an issue of chainstay clearance with the frame I'm using, a Rivendell Bombadil mtb . If anyone has a Carmina triple and can measure the inside width of the cranks, I'd appreciate it. A simple way is to measure the inside of the arms to the seat tube, then measure the seat tube . . add all three.

The length of BB and Brand, as well as which version of the Carmina(polished or blasted inner face) is also needed.

Not many Carmina users . . . but what they hey.