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axel-mounted deralleur on a frame with a hanger?

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axel-mounted deralleur on a frame with a hanger?

Old 07-17-09, 08:37 AM
  #1  
clausti
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axel-mounted deralleur on a frame with a hanger?

I bought an old frame ($20) to paint and build up on the cheap, and somebody gave me a box of parts that included a rear derailleur. Problem is, the rear derailleur is the kind that is supposed to be mounted on the rear axle, and the frame has a derailleur hanger. also, the little screw to line the derailleur up in the dropout and keep it from spinning is missing.

Obviously I'd prefer to use a part that was free (it seems to be in perfectly good working order- it's old and marked "shimano 400" but it's very clean and moves freely on all the springs), but I wonder if it will work. And what kind of screw or bolt can I get for it if I do decide to try and make it work?

The reason I'm wondering is because I just finished helping a friend try and build up one working bike from two partially trashed bikes, and the rear der from the one was axle mounted, while the frame he was building it on had a hanger. And the little screw wouldn't go all the way through because the bolt wasn't long enough with the thicker dropout, but the bolt we tried to buy to fix it hit the cassette.

Anyways, thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
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Old 07-17-09, 08:40 AM
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clausti
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and, wow, sorry about the spelling in the title. *axle* and *derailleur.*
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Old 07-17-09, 10:49 AM
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You can usually unscrew the derailleur from the claw. The threading should be the same as that on the dropout hanger.

I've used a Shimano 400 derailleur on one of my bikes before. It's nothing to brag about, but it shifts well and is reliable.
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Old 07-17-09, 01:56 PM
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The spring at the top pivot point appears to be anchored/braced in the claw.



And on the front side there is a U-shaped metal piece which appears to hold the plastic piece on. In the hole where the other end of the spring comes out, perpendicular to the plane of the picture, there seems to be enough room to get something in there and try and pry the plastic cap off, if maybe i removed the metal piece first.



So which end do I try and get off? Or is it a bust because of where the spring is?
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Old 07-17-09, 02:11 PM
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Looks like that bolt you're missing is for a rod or bolt to keep the derailleur fastened. When trying to find parts to "jerry rig" metric style, if I didn't find what I want online, I'd go to Ace or some local hardware store. Home Depot RARELY has what I want, and Loews isn't much better, but that may be just me.

edit:: btw, removing the hanger seems like a bad idea. With what would you replace it?

Last edited by DanBraden; 07-17-09 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 07-17-09, 02:15 PM
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i haven't worked much with the older axle mounted rear der's, but i was guessing it was to either 1) keep the der from spinning at all or 2) so that you could take the rear wheel off without having to remount the rear der. if 2) is the only reason, it would work without the keeper bolt, if it's the first, or a combo, then i need to go down to ace and see what i can scare up.
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Old 07-17-09, 02:19 PM
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well, stausty mentioned maybe being able to remove the hanger from the derailleur. and since the frame has a hanger on it, I don't need two.

but i don't even know if it will work to put an axle mounted derailleur on a frame that has a hanger- will the hanger on the frame get in the way?
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Old 07-17-09, 03:47 PM
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no it just be behind the other. you need a dérailleur without the hanger so it will screw into the one on the frame. if you remove the c chip on the front the shaft,spring,and the hanger will come out/off.the plastic thing is a washer.if you remove all of this you'll need a bolt to replace the shaft with the hanger on it,then replace the spring and the c chip now on the other side. instead just find a dérailleur to go with the bike.
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Old 07-18-09, 06:40 AM
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does the frame have drop outs...wheel slots that are long enough to take the axle and the retaining bolt?
Ive seen a few bikes that have steel frames with a gear hanger. but have been fitted with a claw type derraieur. works ok.
you dont need the retaining bolt. its just easier to get the gear mech in the right place.
Ive changed derailleurs from claw to bolt fitting before. Was on the cheap steel shimano mechs. not seen that model you have. you might look to find a trashed mech that has the bolt fitting. see if it can be swapped
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Old 07-18-09, 06:55 AM
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Post a picture of the bike's dropout.

The hole in the claw is actually for a special crescent-shaped nut that fits into the end of the drop-out. This nut functions as a stop and locator for the claw and axle. But it's not really needed. You can clamp the claw in place with the axle easily enough.
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Old 07-18-09, 07:30 AM
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If you're using quick release on the thicker forged dropouts, the axle may not be long enough to make it to the hanger, and the axle needs to, because its part of what holds the derailleur hanger in the proper position. With a bolt on rear wheel you won't have this problem.

You can use the longer bolt you found at home depot, if you can find the nut from some other trashed derailleur, and hack the bolt down so it doesn't hit the cassette. But if the axle isn't long enough you'll have to get a longer axle too.

Its easier to find an affordable rear derailleur that will thread right into the hanger. Any older bike shop or bike collective should have a decent used derailleur laying around for $10-15.
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