tadawdy

Who has had a road frame fail, for no reason other than normal use (even if it is on rough roads)? Basically, if I throw down the cash on a CAAD9, how long can I expect the frame to last? I understand that metal accumulates fatigue, but what is normal frame life expectancy for an aluminum frame? Can aluminum (particularly that in the CAAD9) be fixed in the event of a crack? I am 160 lbs, btw.

DannoXYZ 

Without crashes, i've heard they are designed to last 100-years.

reueladhikari

Shouldn't the integrated headset races wear out before the century, requiring a new frame?

tadawdy

You just occasionally hear of failures. if I pay that much for a bike, it's gonna have to last me a while. I really like the CAAD9 and everything I hear about it is good, but it is aluminum (not that I'm really that scared of a failure, just pondering). For curiosity's sake, what companies are still making really nice steel frames?

prathmann

I currently have just over 105,000 miles on my Cannondale 3.0 frame and hope to have many more before it has a failure. I have had two steel frames develop cracks and neither of those had nearly as many miles as the Cannondale.

DannoXYZ 

I've had just as many steel and aluminium frames fail in crashes as anything else. All frames are built with a certain strength & durability to performance ratio. No one wants a 50-lbs bike that lasts forever. There's a balance somewhere in there and I find all frames are adequate in durability terms. There will ALWAYS be a crash severity that'll damage a frame beyond repair. Steel, aluminium, carbon, it doesn't matter, there's always a way to break them.

Buying a frame based upon longevity and durabiity terms is simply ridiculous because it's not easily quantified. Simply because you can't easily characterize and quantify crashes. It's like walking into a bike-shop and asking for a tyre that'll never wear out and a tube that'll never get flat.

This is the only quantified and scientifically conducted durability test I've ever seen: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm
Some background: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/fea.htm

tadawdy

danno, i know nothing lasts forever, and there are compromises. In the absence of crashes, though, I'd like my bike to hold up for a long time. One of the reasons I like the CAAD9 is that it does not have CF stays. i don't know how much i trust the bonding there.

DannoXYZ 

That's more an engineering and design issue rather than materials. Trek have had numerous issues in the BB/chainstay area with their 1st generation of aluminium and carbon frames. But with redesign in successive models pretty much eliminated those problems. Same with just about any other manufacturer.

I wouldn't worry about Cannondale frames, I've had bulletproof durability from them over the past several decades. If anything, they are the most robust frames out there, perhaps to a fault in that their earlier alloy frames will bruise your kidneys if you're a lighter rider.

Personally, I would chose a frame strictly on its fit and ride-quality that best matches your performance criteria irrespective of the durability concerns.

JohnDThompson 

You make a good point, but keep in mind that different materials have different failure modes. With sensible design, any material can make a frame that will last indefinitely under normal use, but different materials have different failure modes that may be encountered under abnormal conditions (e.g. crashes, etc.). Both carbon fiber and aluminum will go from initial damage to complete failure quite rapidly (and often spectacularly), while steel can often be ridden safely for some time before complete failure. And steel is easier to repair than other materials, particularly if you are touring in a remote area.

tadawdy

what companies still make good steel road frames?

Pragmatik

Jamis has some nice steel on the Coda series and their sweet touring bikes -- a few others, too, I think. And of course Surly

HillRider

Trek's 520 Touring bike is steel. Numerous custom and boutique makers still offer steel frames. Co-Motion and Independent Fabrications are among the many.

Several makers, Trek and Litespeed are two I know for certain, offer a lifetime warrany to the original owner. Other than crash damage, if the frame fails they will replace it at no cost.

jsharr

I have weighed over 200 lbs since I was a sophomore in high school in the early 80s. I bought one of the early bonded aluminum Trek 1000s in 1988 and rode it until 2005, when I finally traded it in for a new Trek 1200. Wheels failed, frame did not.

Mr. Underbridge

As long as you treat the bike well and don't do dumb things like drop off curbs on a racing bike, it should hold up very well. I don't think I've heard of an aluminum frame failing catastrophically without ample warning signs (like bad frame dents and such).

So basically, get a bike. Ride it. Don't worry so much.

stevemtbr

My 2000 CAD3 C'Dale hard tail mountain bike has over 10,000 miles on the frame.

layedback1

All metals have a fatigue life. Aluminium has the lowest steel is in the middle, and titanium has a claimed infinite fatigue life. As someone stated it probably amounts to how much weight you are willing to pedal around. However to my mind one of the biggest things it comes down to is the skill of the welder. Too much heat, inclusions, depth of the bead etc will have a huge effect on life. Carbon fiber frames are another whole deal.

calamarichris

My '04 Felt F55 (63cm) snapped the right chainstay.


In Felt's defense:
~The bike was a dream with no trouble at all for 4 years.
~My weight got as high as 195 in that time.
~The main thoroughfare from my home underwent construction for several months and was rougher than stink.
~I'm a bit of a masher, (I grew up watching the Badger.)
~Felt replaced the frame completely with no questions or even raised eyebrows.
~The replacement frame they sent had slightly beefier chainstays.
~Before learning the frame was snapped, I hit 40+ while crossing two lanes of 55+ traffic to make my left hand turn home. It was creaking loudly enough to be heard at speed, so I inspected it once home. I immediately hugged & kissed the bike for not collapsing while I was in the path of the approaching 55+ mph traffic.

StanSeven

Most people that spend a couple thousand dollars on a frame will want something newer, better, lighter, etc. along time before the frame is anywhere close to wearing out.

vredstein

https://www.torelli.com/torelli/torelli.html

I can't recommend them highly enough. I've never read a bad review on them. My '98 Countach OS still remains the finest riding bike I've ever had. I wish I still had it.
A Corsa Strada frame with American paint and a Reynolds carbon fork would be the foundation for a great bike.

Goose5

I have the same frame. Bought in 1990. I don't have anywhere near that many miles.

hairnet

I hope my Al frame holds up. I have a habit of being pretty abusive to things I own, I have only had this bike since February and it already looks at least a year old

mzeffex 

I hope aluminum won't fail. It shouldn't. If anything, it's the carbon bike I just ordered

tadawdy

hillrider, thanks for the tip about warranties. I has forgotten the aspect of support for the original owner. It seems the major companies all have solid ones.

edit: much less worried now. I just think a lot before big buys.

DannoXYZ 

You have to compare identical failures. You can't compare getting crushed by a car to hopping off a kerb. One of the most common CF failures is the exact one calamarichris posted on his alloy Felt. This failure would result in exactly the same symptoms and exactly the same noise and limp-home mode. The 1st-gen Trek 5000/5500 had this failure due to insufficiently thick chainstays.

I've also had the downtube pull out of the headtube on an alloy Peugeot Comete (remember the marketing ads on its similar construction methods to the Concorde?). Anyway, it felt like I suddenly developed suspension as the frame flexed up and down 100x more than normal. Very similar to many failures on SLX frames.

My brother managed to crash into a tree coming out of a final corner in a crit on his Bridgestone RB-1. There was a U-shape dent in the top-tube and his fork was aimed forward at 45-degrees instead of 74. Any frame, regardless of material would be equally useless after an impact like that.

And the idea of repairing a damaged steel by replacing main tubes is simply ridiculous. The vast majority are simply tossed just like an alloy or CF frame. It's simply not economically feasible. It's like saying you're better off buying a 30-year old car because the engine's easier to rebuild when it wears out. How many of us purchase cars based upon that criteria?

LarDasse74

WHat you said about fatigue failure is not exactly accurate.
All materials do have a finite fatigue life, but titanium and steel have what is called a 'fatigue limit' which is (theoretically) an amount of stress that can be applied to the material without ever causing it to fail. Aluminum does not have a fatigue limit.

Aluminum will eventually fail no matter how small the stress applied... but 'eventually' might mean it has to be subjected to billions of cycles. But even if you are sitting in your la-Z-boy gently pressing on your aluminum frame with your pinky finger, it will eventually fail (like thousands of years and many billions of pinky-presses).

Even for steel and titanium, however, if they are subjected to repeated stress above the fatige limit they will eventually fail. Exeeding the fatigue limit can happen a number of ways - extremely abusive riding or jumping, too big or strong of a rider riding a super light frame, a material being wekened by manufacturing proceses like welding, or any combination of these.

FWIW, almost every steel frame I have had for more than a year or two has failed, no aluminum frames (out of several owned) have failed, and my titanium mountain bike is the only MTB that I have had for more than a couple of years without frame failure, although it has not seen the amount of use that all the steel and aluminum ones had.

I noticed this spring that my 17 year old handmade brazed steel road bike is developing a crack at the seat tube junction.

And two years ago my wife's lightly used aluminum frame cracked at a weld - presumably due to poor manufacturing. It was replaced under warranty without any hassle.