mcgreivey

OK, first, I've never even ridden a bike with brifters, let alone opened one up to look inside. I have worked on ratchet shifters of various sorts, as well as indexed thumb sifters, and I would guess there would be some mechanical similarities, though.

If I understand correctly, the Campagnolo shifter for the front derailleur is not indexed, which I suppose means that it uses a ratchet of some sort. The rear is indexed, of course, which I suppose probably means it uses a coarser-toothed ratchet to index. I've read that some (all?) Campy brifters can be switched from (say) 8 to 9 speeds by changing a part inside (a ratchet disc, I suppose). So maybe it's possible to change the mechanism of the RD shifter to use the same mechanism as the FD shifter? Perhaps it's as simple as substituting a fine-toothed ratchet disc? or fabricating a new ratchet (if you have a friend in a machine shop)?

I know, a lot of people would think the idea of a ratcheting brifter for the rear derailleur is a whacko idea, but I'm potentially the kind of whacko who could live with such an animal. I bet there are others like me.

Has anyone ever tried this? Is it possible?

I suppose I should go look for an exploded view of Campy brifters. Maybe I already should have done that. Meanwhile, discuss...

DaveSSS 

The short answer is no, it's a complete waste of time. The Campy left shifter, except for the latest '09 model has 12 clicks, but only 3-4 cover the full range of FD travel for a double and 7 are used for a triple FD. In that respect, it's sort of universal, with lots of cable pull.

The right shifter can't be altered to do anything but precisely indexed movements. The shifters will only operate Campy RDs properly in an indexed mode, unless someting like a J-tek shiftmate is installed to alter the cable pull. There is a cable routing trick to allow a Campy 10 shifter to operate a Shimano RD, with a Shimano 9 cassette.

mcgreivey

Right. I'm still curious, though, and maybe I'll try to get a set of 10-speed campy shifters to tear them apart and look with my own eyes. In addition to the 9-speed Shimano trick, I've also read that 10-speed Campy shifters will work with 8-speed Shimano RD & cassette, and I'm going to try that on my bike since it looks like it might be cheaper than Shimano 8-speed brifters.

But the reason I'm wondering about the possibility of converting the RD shifter to friction/ratchet is that my friend has an early '90s bike with a 7-speed SunTour drivetrain. He kind of wants to get brifters (his bike surrently has SunTour Command shifters). He might be able to get by with getting a Shimano 8-speed cassette, and Campy 10-speed brifters for under $100 (and maybe a Shimano RD, if the SunTour RD has any slop in it). But if it's possible just to fiddle with the ratchet disc in the RD shifter mechanism, ... well, maybe there's a way.

But anyway, maybe the question is much simpler: would a Campy left (FD) brifter have enough cable pull to operate a 7- or 8-speed rear derailleur? I've run SunTour Command shifters "backwards", with the ratchet/friction shifter shifting the RD, and the 7-speed indexed shifter shifting the FD (as a "coarse" ratchet shifter), and it worked fine.

OK, I guess I just sort of worked out most of the answer as I typed the preceeding paragraph.

norwood

Interesting, but if the levers are swapped sides on the bars, the thumb shift levers will be on the "wrong" side.

cs1

No offense but this is such a crazy request it's almost laughable. I totally can relate to wanting brifters at minimal cost. Sometimes it's just easier to sell everything and start new.

If you want brifters try getting Sora 7 sp and a set of used Shimano derailleurs. Brifters are about $150 new and maybe $100 used on ebay. Nice clean used RSX/105 derailleurs can be had for well under $50 used on ebay if you're patient. You might be able to reuse the cassette/freewheel. If not Nashbar has Shimano freewheels for cheap. You should be able to get into it for under $200. Now for the good part. Those used SunTour shifters are currently hot on ebay. You could probably sell your derailleurs and shifters for almost what the Shimano cost.

Steev

I think the biggest impediment to what you want is that the "ratchet" steps of a Campagnolo shifters are way too large to function as pseudo friction shifters. I have briefly run a Campagnolo RD from the left brifter (broke my right wrist and was riding the trainer) and it almost steps a cog/per click on a RD, but nowhere near close enough to be road worthy. The steps will need to be much smaller for your proposed application.
You should also know, the cable pull is quite different between Suntour and Shimano shifters and RD's. If some combination is claimed to index OK with a Shimano RD, it will not work to substitute a Suntour RD in.

joejack951

Find some used 7 speed RSX brifters on Ebay. I see them all the time for about $50. Pair them with almost any Shimano derailler (less than $20 used) and you are set.

mcgreivey

I kind of mostly mean this as a (possibly amusing) theoretical question. I guess I just like to test assumptions.

For example, here's an assumption I've tested, and the assumption failed: "You can't put mountain bike thumb shifters on road bars". Setting aside the ergonomic factors (which are arguably really more a matter or personal taste), it turn out that the only physical impediment to doing this is that thumb shifters, which usually have 7/8" clamps, will usually not fit on road bars (9/16"). It turns out that the simple solution is to ask your buddy in the machine shop to ream the clamps out to 9/16". Problem solved. I now run an 8-speed thumb shifter, which I bought for $15, mounted inboard of the right brake lever (where ST Command shifters and Kelly Take-offs are mounted). Works fine. This isn't what everyone would want to do, but it works for me.

So, if I were to come into possession of a set of Campy brifters for $50, and didn't want to spend the money to get a "compatible" cassette and derailleur combo, could I use them in a way that most people would not want to bother trying to do? The obvious answer is that I should try it, and see.

Steev's answer seems to mean that the FD shifter ratchet isn't fine-grained enough to make it work well for the RD. This suggests that my command-shifter-ish solution might not work here for the RD (though it might work fine to use the RD brifter for the FD, since the RD index points are a bit closer together than the SunTour 7-speed index points on on my command shifters, which worked fine for my triple front).

Cable pull differences have not been a problem for me. I've always been able to use ST shifters with Shimano derailleur, and vice versa. And in fact, ST 7-speed indexed shifters ALMOST worked for my Shimano 8-speed when I tried it. It turns out that ST and Shimano cog spacing is the same for the the high gears, and not quite the same for the low gears (Sheldon's cog spacing chart bears this out: https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html#spacingk7). For the steps that are the same, the ST indexing worked fine, which suggests that the cable pull was the same as well. So if I wanted to tinker, and enlist my machine shop buddy, yeah, I guess I could modify the indexing disc in my ST 7-speed shifters and make it work (Sheldon's solution, by the way, was to modify is Shimano cassette so that it had ST spacing).

As to laughability, --- most things are laughable. It just depends on who's laughing, and who's getting laughed at. For me, spending $200 is laughable, if I can solve my problem for $50 (or for free, even). cs1: yes, you're right--if i want to spend that $200. And yes, getting a Shimano-spaced cassette isn't expensive.

Anyway, thank you for reading, and for your thoughts.

And maybe there's still someone out there who's as crazy as me, who has already tried this, for one reason or another.

As for the button being on the wrong side if you reversed the shifters--you could just reverse which side the respective cables are routed to, and shift the FD with the right shifter. It's not usually done, but that's just convention. And the wiseass answer: just turn the brifters upside down! (OK, even I wouldn't try that.)

EDIT, after seeing joejack951's post: Yes, I'll look into that.

DaveSSS 

Send me a PM and I can e-mail a word document that lists the cable pulls for a large number of shifters and some of the odd-ball combinations that can work together as indexed shifting.

Campy shifters pull more cable than Shimano, so some Campy cable pulls will operate fairly well with certain Shimano RD and cassettes. For example, a Campy 10 shifter will shift a Shimano 8 RD and cassette, since the cables pulls are very close.

cs1

What I said was even at maybe $200 you can recoup most of the cost by selling your current set up. If you bought all the used parts I mentioned and sold yours the net cost to you would be under $50. Remeber, Command shifters are fetching a good price on ebay. Good luck on whatever you choose.