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Truing a wheel by a LBS

Old 12-22-09, 05:29 PM
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Truing a wheel by a LBS

I want to give my rear wheel (DualDrive IGH and cassete) to a LBS to get trued.

Is it sufficient to bring just the wheel or is there an advantage in bringing the entire bike?

(bringing the wheel only is easier for me and I can readjust the brakes if needed).

Thanks,

Kam
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Old 12-22-09, 05:36 PM
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Just the wheel should be fine.Bringing the entire bike just exposes it to getting dinged etc,and creates more work for the shop..
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Old 12-22-09, 06:20 PM
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^... and also takes up space
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Old 12-22-09, 06:21 PM
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Ask the shop to check the dish and spoke tension.
All they need is the wheel.
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Old 12-22-09, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Al1943
Ask the shop to check the dish and spoke tension.
All they need is the wheel.
+1 Most would also prefer to have the tire off the rim too.
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Old 12-22-09, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mas-az
+1 Most would also prefer to have the tire off the rim too.
But if you leave the tire and tube on, you might get lucky. I took my wheel in for a trueing with a slow leak, and got it returned with a new tube. Nothing noted on the bill, no mention by the mechanic. He was adamant nothing had happened, but the wheel came in with a threaded presta stem and left with a threadless one.
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Old 12-22-09, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mas-az
+1 Most would also prefer to have the tire off the rim too.
No they wouldn't.

If the wheel is trued without the tyre/tube on and inflated to correct pressure there is a good chance that putting those on will make the wheel out of true. Especially if the wheelbuild blows/parts aren't stiff. For lateral true anyways.
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Old 12-23-09, 12:42 AM
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Thanks everybody for the info. I took the wheel to a LBS. The guy said that the wobbling is minor and recommended to come back after 3 months when the wheel will 'set in'. (this is a wheel of a slightly used bike I purchased recently, not from that store. It has less than 50 miles on it).

Kam
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Old 12-23-09, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kamtsa
Thanks everybody for the info. I took the wheel to a LBS. The guy said that the wobbling is minor and recommended to come back after 3 months when the wheel will 'set in'. (this is a wheel of a slightly used bike I purchased recently, not from that store. It has less than 50 miles on it).

Kam
No, this is not going to happen.
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Old 12-23-09, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
If the wheel is trued without the tyre/tube on and inflated to correct pressure there is a good chance that putting those on will make the wheel out of true. Especially if the wheelbuild blows/parts aren't stiff. For lateral true anyways.
I fear you know not what you say, Operator regardless of your 25,000+ posts. You cannot put enough pressure into a tire to affect the wheel without blowing the tire or tube or both. Pure BS.
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Old 12-23-09, 10:58 AM
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If it's only slightly out of true, why not teach yourself to fish and get a spoke wrench?

It should only be a matter of a quarter turn here, a half turn there.

Just hold the brake pad close to the rim to catch it where it goes to one side, and adjust accordingly.
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Old 12-23-09, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
No they wouldn't.

If the wheel is trued without the tyre/tube on and inflated to correct pressure there is a good chance that putting those on will make the wheel out of true. Especially if the wheelbuild blows/parts aren't stiff. For lateral true anyways.
Yeah, right.

And on a high-profile rim without exposed nipples, you expect to do what - reinstall the tire & tube between every turn of a nipple?

If the tire + pressure will take the wheel out of true, I can guarantee that the cyclist that will then sit on the saddle up there will do so even more. Avoid the spaghettis as spokes - and if you can't, at least make sure they're al dente.
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Old 12-23-09, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mas-az
I fear you know not what you say, Operator regardless of your 25,000+ posts. You cannot put enough pressure into a tire to affect the wheel without blowing the tire or tube or both. Pure BS.
IF the wheel is overtensioned...

AND/OR

IF the wheel has not properly been stress relieved

...what operator says is actually TRUE...

In the overtension case, it'll be quite aparrent when inflating as a clearly defined s-wave wobble will appear and then go away upon deflation.

In the stress relief deficiency case - you'll hear a few nipples do the "tinkle" thingy in the toilet and there will be a few spots where the wheels will show up a mm or so out of true.

Keep up the good work on that post count...

=8-)
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Old 12-23-09, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mas-az
I fear you know not what you say, Operator regardless of your 25,000+ posts. You cannot put enough pressure into a tire to affect the wheel without blowing the tire or tube or both. Pure BS.
I'm seriously tired of the ignorance around here as of late.

Not only does inflating a tyre/tube on some wheelsets cause them to go out of true, it also drops tension across the board on the entire wheel. Let me know when you've built over a 1000 sub $1k road/hybrid commuter bikes and come back. Rims that are less stiff, wheelbuilds that are crappier or components that require a greater range of tension on the wheel exacerbate this.

How long have YOU worked in a shop? How many bikes have you built? I'm guessing your pathetic answers to these questions will be equally pure BS. Rid us of your ignorance. You can come back and tell me i'm right when you actually have some experience working on bikes.

Last edited by operator; 12-23-09 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 12-23-09, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Zouf
Yeah, right.

And on a high-profile rim without exposed nipples, you expect to do what - reinstall the tire & tube between every turn of a nipple?

If the tire + pressure will take the wheel out of true, I can guarantee that the cyclist that will then sit on the saddle up there will do so even more. Avoid the spaghettis as spokes - and if you can't, at least make sure they're al dente.
It's quite clear that none of you have ever trued wheels for customers.

Joe home mechanic ignorant posts are really starting to piss me off. Not ALL wheels go out of true and not all wheels drop tension, it depends on the exact components of that build and the state of that build at the time you true it.
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Old 12-23-09, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
If it's only slightly out of true, why not teach yourself to fish and get a spoke wrench?
That's a good question. When I was 11 years old I wanted to 'fix' my older brother bikes and tighten all the spokes. We had to take the bike to a LBS to make it rideable again. That's a real story. Since then wheel truing seems to me as black magic.

But you are right, I should take the plunge. I know a guy that teaches (for free) wheel building so I will try to have a supervised session with him.

Kam
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Old 12-23-09, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
If the wheel is trued without the tyre/tube on and inflated to correct pressure there is a good chance that putting those on will make the wheel out of true.
This specific wheel is not double walled the rim tape is sandwiched between the nipples and the tube. Is it safe to turn the nipples while the tube is under pressure? I am thinking of damaging the tape due to the rotation of the nipple while the tube is pressing it from the other side.

Thanks,

Kam
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Old 12-23-09, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit
Keep up the good work on that post count...
I'll try but I really don't have that much time on my hands to build up a real high posting count.
I'll buy what you are saying but I think they are edge cases and if you were going to true a wheel you would be inclined to take care of those things and you wouldn't need the tire on to do it either.
Unless you are telling me that you need the tire on to tell if it is over tensioned or not stress relieved.

Last edited by mas-az; 12-23-09 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 12-23-09, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
I'm guessing your pathetic answers to these questions will be equally pure BS.
Probably. I am humbled, please accept my apologies, I stand corrected and your replies greatly add to my experience.
It is just in the ten or so wheel sets I have built, I know not many, I have never had a wheel go out of true after I put the tire on and brought it up to pressure.
Even to pressure where I blew it off the rim.
Also I have found that it is easier for me to true a wheel and eliminate the hop with the tire off. I assumed that is why the LBS asks me to bring in the bare wheel.

Now I want you to notice nowhere in this reply did I mention experience, years, IQ, or express an egotistic point. You would do your self well to express yourself more carefully too. mrrabbit certainly has the right approach.
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Old 12-23-09, 05:41 PM
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operator, I'm surprised you prefer the tire to be on. I respect it, though. It's just not my choice. The tire slows me down, and I can't do roundness truing with it on.
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Old 12-23-09, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kamtsa
We had to take the bike to a LBS to make it rideable again. That's a real story. Since then wheel truing seems to me as black magic.

But you are right, I should take the plunge. I know a guy that teaches (for free) wheel building so I will try to have a supervised session with him.
It's not that hard to start working it out for yourself...

As long as the wheel is pretty round and you don't have to worry about that side of it, it's quite basic. Check for spokes that are much too loose (that feel looser rather than sound looser), tighten them till they sound as tight as their brethren, grab four spokes at a time and squeeze (hard) your way around the wheel a couple of times, then give it a spin. With any luck, it'll still be round, or even rounder. Now just use the brakes to identify where you need to transfer tension from one side to the other (do a quarter turn at a time if it's pretty close) until it looks nice and straight. Try to secure a brake pad so it lightly brushes the rim and won't move when you take the wheel out and flip it, or use a vernier to check the distance to the frame. If your dish is out, just tighten all the spokes on the more convex side slightly (unless you reckon the spokes are getting too tight, in which case do the reverse)... depending on how much dish you're trying to eliminate, start with a quarter or eighth of a turn.

If the wheel is nice and you're getting right into it, you might like to tune the spokes to the same pitch before a final preload/truing cycle.

Originally Posted by kamtsa
This specific wheel is not double walled the rim tape is sandwiched between the nipples and the tube. Is it safe to turn the nipples while the tube is under pressure? I am thinking of damaging the tape due to the rotation of the nipple while the tube is pressing it from the other side
Should be fine, unless the spokes are too long and you're tightening them a lot. Even then, what you're worrying about there is a pretty freak occurrence.

But if you're game to try making your rim rounder, you'll need to pull the tyre off anyway.

Last edited by Kimmo; 12-23-09 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 12-24-09, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
It's not that hard to start working it out for yourself...
Thanks for the info Kimmo.

1. Will tools such as a truing stand and tensiometer make the job significantly easier for me?

2. How do you measure the dish of the rear wheel? The dishing need to be symmetrical in respect to the hub but the cogs make it asymmetrical. In other words, what reference point should I choose on both sides?

Kam
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Old 12-24-09, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kamtsa
Thanks for the info Kimmo.

1. Will tools such as a truing stand and tensiometer make the job significantly easier for me?

2. How do you measure the dish of the rear wheel? The dishing need to be symmetrical in respect to the hub but the cogs make it asymmetrical. In other words, what reference point should I choose on both sides?

Kam
How much a trueing stand or a tensiometer helps will depend on the condition of the wheel. If all of the spoke tensions are pretty even and the wheel isn't very far out of true, they might not help at all. If you have a serious up-and-down wobble, they can help a lot.

Dish is centering the rim between the hub's two locknuts.
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Old 12-24-09, 11:29 AM
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How to check a wheel with a dishing tool
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Old 12-24-09, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Dish is centering the rim between the hub's two locknuts.
This is an important point for the new mechanic. Rear rims are not centered between the hub's flanges but between the hub's locknuts so it is noticably offset toward the drive-side flange. That's what makes a dishing tool so necessary since you can't center the rim just by inspection using the hub flanges as a guide.
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