wheel Building fail?
 

I just laced up deep v rims with dt champion spokes. 36 hole. the spoke holes face one way and i stupidly laced the spokes coming out the opposite of the rim drilling. i mean that if the rim hole should be laced to the left flange i laced it to the right flange. both wheels. must i rebuild them? going to race cyclocross on them. pleasse excuse the typing, i am on my cell phone.

Seems like you could undo two spokes on each wheel, and move each spoke one position, then retension/true? Maybe I missed something.,,,,BD

I think you know the answer, which is yes, do rebuild them. There are subtleties to wheel building and a learning curve. The rims will last longer and the wheels stay truer if built properly. It goes a lot faster the second time. One way to speed the work is to take one wheel down completely, tape the freed rim to the other rim and move the spokes over one by one. Be sure you put them in the right orientation. Also make sure the stem is placed between two
parallel spokes and not between two crossed spokes. A look at the wheel
will show what I mean.

Lacing spokes is the easiest part of wheel building. Just pull them all off and start over. No big deal.

Al

alright. crap. i already trued, dished, and put tires on. oh well.

the last build i did took 10 minutes to lace, 20 to true per wheel. just keep practicing. second, you probably spent some good money on the wheels.. why not just do it right?

i will its just frustrating

What am I missing? If the rim is reversed, won't the spoke holes just point at the other flange? Or is this some kind of style thing or accessibility to the valve?

no. angled spoke holes so the wrong spokees have a slight bend to them.

What he said. Take it apart and do it over. It's part of the learning curve. Anything worth doing is worth doing right - plus you'll have peace of mind knowing that you built a tight, solid wheel. There's also the satisfaction of having done it yourself.

My first couple of wheels I had to start over and re-lace. Yes, it's frustrating, but I learned from my mistakes. After awhile, you'll prefer your hand-built wheels to machine-built once you get some more experience.

Good luck!

If you leave them like that the spokes will probably break at the nipple.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for the input

Get an electric screwdriver, really reduces wheelbuilding time significantly.

I've built low-profile rims in lateral cross deliberately, with no adverse effects. But I don't know if I'd dare to do it with an aero rim. If the wheel is already laced I'd probably eyeball the angle and see how bad it is, ry to guesstimate something from that.

i think i'll just rebuild it, but can i do the method of just undoing two at a time? won't that kind of misplace the key spoke and everything will be out of whack?

I think it's easier to start from the beginning.

Well, you undo two to start, and then one at a time after that. Undo one, move it forward, and so on. Not a wheel builder, but it sounds reasonable.,,,,BD

It is. But wait until you don't feel frustrated. Relax. Have a leg of Santa. Have some wine. Then, when you are relaxed, do it. It's fun!

Higher profile rims are dirlled for a specific lacing pattern as well, usually 30mm+ rims, especially carbon. The lacing pattern is typically non-negotiable for those. For example the old style shamals 38mm+ are all drilled radial for front and 1 cross/radial rear. Which you cannot deviate from.

Prolly worth running a drill through the holes to allow the nipple to sit on the right angle, yeah?

More angle on the spokes makes a huge difference to the strength of the wheel, especially for rears. I had a Giant CFR1, and realised I was compressing the stays together by 5mm or so when I put the wheel in, so I fit a 135mm MTB spindle and re-dished the wheel... much nicer.

Similarly, if you can add more spoke angle by using a rim that allows some lateral cross, the dish of your rear is reduced.

i am still unsure about how moving two spokes will work. it is the location of the key spoke that worries me.

This is why you don't hear me advocating this approach. Too easy to foul it up again and end up eating the family pet in anger. Take it apart. Start again - being sure of the correct key-spoke orientation in relation to the angles of the spoke-holes in the rim.

Have fun!

Not moving two spokes, moving them all? You undo two spokes to start. If you're going to move one, there has to be a place for it to go? If the spoke holes alternate in angle, then the next hole will go the right direction, correct? It might mess up something, so best rebuild them.,,,,BD

How 'bout this:
Tape the spokes together at the outer cross, then undo them all from the rim. Once the rim is free, simply flip it over, pop the spokes back in. Tension and true. That should sort everything out.

If all you do is flip the rim over, and leave the valve stem in between the parallel spokes where it belongs...you will have accomplished nothing. Just hold any wheel with offset drillings in front of you so that you can see the valve stem at the furthest point next to the neighboring nipple holes. If you flip it over, the drilling to the lower right will be moved to the upper left...accomplishing zero. Shifting all the spokes over two places in each direction will accomplish the same thing. Shifting all the spokes over ONE hole in either direction WOULD fix the offset drilling problem BUT it would move your valve-stem to an improper location. I can't believe suggestions other than "rebuild it completely" are being made here. He already built it once, so he's competent, he just overlooked one thing. The OP may have even rebuilt it already. I just hope he doesn't fuss with trying a 'short cut' first and add a frustrating Hour to the process.

To the OP, let us know what you do and how it goes. =)

-Jeremy

I work in a bike shop, my boss suggested I ride it for a few weeks, then rebuild before my next race. I went to two other bike shops for opinions, both said don't worry about it; it is perfectly fine. Then bike forums basically advises I rebuild it.

On that note, if I do rebuild it, I really don't understand how to correct the problem. I mean, I know what need be done, but I can't figure out how. The two spoke option moves the valve, flipping the rim just creates the same problem.. what the eff am I supposed to do?

Can you get a side shot picture of the wheel with the valve hole marked somehow? It should be as simple as moving every spoke one hole. The question is which way.

I believe that it involves changing the position of your key spoke. Normally you would place your key spoke right next to the valve stem, then lace every other flange hole to every 4th rim hole on that same flange. Then you would move to the opposite flange and start with the next (halfway offset) flange hole to the left on that side, place that spoke and set it into the next available rim hole, just next to your key spoke.

IF your "key spoke" is having to cross to the opposing side of the rim in order to hit the hole next to the valve stem (which seems to be the case for you), you should skip that first hole and lace your key spoke to the second rim hole instead. This will only slightly change your hub/rim alignment, and will mean that you're lacing to the proper side of the rim. Place the rest of those first spokes on that flange before continuing. Then while placing spokes for the opposite flange, you'll start by placing your first spoke in the flange hole that's slightly to the RIGHT and lace that one to the rim hole in-between your "key" spoke and the valve hole. Continue around the wheel placing each spoke in the same orientation to this pair, each opposing flange spoke will be slightly to the right of each spoke that you laced to the first flange.

In the wheel building book that I use, he explains that most rims use the more common "type 1" spoke hole offset, but some use the opposite "type 2" which appears to be what you have. That is of course unless you laced it backwards in the first place. Type 1 vs. Type 2 makes no difference except in the lacing stage when you have to change things slightly. If you don't mind spending a few dollars, you can purchase and download the book online. It's called Professional Guide to Wheel Building by: Roger Musson, and likely will do a better job of explaining this difference than i have.

-Jeremy

This is why many of us do our own wrenching. There IS a "right" way of doing it. There may also be a different "safe" way of doing it, but why not make sure it's done right. The wheel will likely be stronger, will have better "seated" spoke nipples, and be easier to maintain (if you ever need it). What the shops were most likely saying is that it's probably safe to ride that way, but the undeniable reality is that it's not the "right" way.

To make a comparison, I'd rather have a wheel laced to the proper side of the rim and not have my valve hole in the right spot than have my valve hole in the right spot and be laced to the wrong side of the rim. The first one is inconvenient, the second one is a structural change. That's my 2 cents.

-Jeremy

Yep. Gotta move the key spoke. Now that solves the problem, I just need to do the actual relacing. I'll wait till saturday when I have work, so I can use the truing stand/dishing tool.