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-   -   initial spoke tension Q (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/614876-initial-spoke-tension-q.html)

BCRider 01-16-10 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by chucky (Post 10279292)
...... I was lacing a 36 hole hub to a 24 hole rim as per http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/36-24.htm .......

It may... er.... no, make that WOULD have saved us and you a LOT of time and effort if you had passed along this little gem in your first post.

AEO 01-16-10 09:18 PM

my suggestion to anyone who views this thread in the future:
do not build a 'perverse' wheel as your first wheel build and come asking why it's not working.
really, there is a learning curve or stages, and you really have to understand why the wheel is round, firm and strong with the spokes it uses.

Dannihilator 01-16-10 09:28 PM

36 hole hub to a 24 hole rim? I wouldn't recommend it.

BCRider 01-16-10 09:31 PM

I don't see anything wrong with taking on a challenge. Hell, most of us would be up there cheering the guy on and itching to help with the issues so we could share in the build in a virtual way. But to keep this a secret for over a week? Or to think that it somehow didn't matter?

In the words of Kelly Bundy "the mind wobbles"... :D

chucky 01-16-10 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by BCRider (Post 10279454)
I don't see anything wrong with taking on a challenge. Hell, most of us would be up there cheering the guy on and itching to help with the issues so we could share in the build in a virtual way. But to keep this a secret for over a week? Or to think that it somehow didn't matter?

In the words of Kelly Bundy "the mind wobbles"... :D

Considering how the responses changed once I mentioned it, it shouldn't be at all difficult to understand why I didn't mention it to begin with:
"do not build a 'perverse' wheel...and come asking why it's not working."
"36 hole hub to a 24 hole rim? I wouldn't recommend it."

And this is after I stopped asking for help! I guarantee if I had said something while I was asking for help the responses would have been much worse. I know because I always do things differently (because it's not possible to be better than average by following the standard) and the majority of people simply hate when things are done differently. Regardless of race, religion, or creed, interest or profession if there's one thing I know it's that mankind loves mediocrity and seeks to enforce it at all costs.

Nevertheless this time I figured out what the problem was and how to solve it on my own, but often times people have answers to problems which they are reluctant to share if they think you're doing things differently because somehow they think those answers don't or shouldn't extrapolate outside their own limited experience.

chucky 01-16-10 10:03 PM

BTW, I know I said I'd make another thread, but since this one is still active I'll mention that the key to building a fully symmetrical 36-24 wheel is to change the spoke pattern at the rim from alternating R L R L R L R L to alternating R R L L R R L L (where R and L refer to spokes which connect to the right and left hub flanges, respectively).

Once I spend more time testing the wheel I'll post a full analysis along with how to use Rinard's spoke calculator the get the required spoke lengths.

AEO 01-16-10 10:06 PM

P: "hey doctor, my arm hurts"
Dr.: "what did you do to it? can I see it?"
P: "no, I won't tell you what I did with it and you cannot see it"
Dr.: "why not? don't you want me to help you?"
P: "nevermind, I fixed it myself after I read up on how to treat myself"
Dr.: "well, what did you come here for?"

rydaddy 01-16-10 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by chucky (Post 10279611)
BTW, I know I said I'd make another thread, but since this one is still active I'll mention that the key to building a fully symmetrical 36-24 wheel is to change the spoke pattern at the rim from alternating R L R L R L R L to alternating R R L L R R L L (where R and L refer to spokes which connect to the right and left hub flanges, respectively).

Once I spend more time testing the wheel I'll post a full analysis along with how to use Rinard's spoke calculator the get the required spoke lengths.

Please keep us posted.

chucky 01-16-10 10:54 PM


Originally Posted by AEO (Post 10279625)
P: "hey doctor, my arm hurts"
Dr.: "what did you do to it? can I see it?"
P: "no, I won't tell you what I did with it and you cannot see it"
Dr.: "why not? don't you want me to help you?"
P: "nevermind, I fixed it myself after I read up on how to treat myself"
Dr.: "well, what did you come here for?"

I'm not going to respond to this because I don't want to offend anyone, but let it suffice to say that the overwhelming majority of people (including doctors and other intelligent and knowledgeable individuals) haven't the slightest idea how to properly think or gather information.

Frankly, it's a bit of a sore spot for me because I recently quit my job because I'm sick and tired of trying to explain this to people, especially doctors. That's why for now I just want to configure my bicycles the way I want them, ride them where I want to, and for once in my life not have to argue nonsense with people who have about as much sense as an iPhone (which, with all due respect, is also very "knowledgeable" in terms of information content).

BCRider 01-16-10 11:01 PM

The point was you had us all chasing out tails because you neglected or decided not to mention some extremely important information related to your troubles. If you're not going to tell the whole story why bother asking for help in the first place?

And yeah, some of the folks would have jumped all over this from the start because you wanted to do something out of the ordinary. But others would have gotten enthused and tried to help in a serious manner. And I would have been one of them. Some of us are always up for a challenge and to do something different or find out why it won't work after a good chew on the issue.

But when you toss in the topic and then jump in late in the game with something that makes the whole effort a waste all you do is shoot yourself in the foot for next time. Remember the tale of the boy who cried "WOLF".....

Soil_Sampler 01-16-10 11:16 PM

Tact
 
Main Entry: alien·ate
Pronunciation: \ˈā-lē-ə-ˌnāt, ˈāl-yə-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): alien·at·ed; alien·at·ing
Date: circa 1509

1 : to make unfriendly, hostile, or indifferent especially where attachment formerly existed.

chucky 01-16-10 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by BCRider (Post 10279783)
The point was you had us all chasing out tails because you neglected or decided not to mention some extremely important information related to your troubles. If you're not going to tell the whole story why bother asking for help in the first place?

And yeah, some of the folks would have jumped all over this from the start because you wanted to do something out of the ordinary. But others would have gotten enthused and tried to help in a serious manner. And I would have been one of them. Some of us are always up for a challenge and to do something different or find out why it won't work after a good chew on the issue.

But when you toss in the topic and then jump in late in the game with something that makes the whole effort a waste all you do is shoot yourself in the foot for next time. Remember the tale of the boy who cried "WOLF".....

Ok, you're right. It was rude and selfish of me to manipulate you guys for my own potential benefit. I'm sorry.

Panthers007 01-16-10 11:50 PM

I used an Eldi nipple-driver on a few wheels before, check those out. No handle to turn. Push down once - that's one full revolution.

Other than that - I'm taking my Park SW-0 and going home in a snit! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

urbanknight 01-17-10 12:42 AM


Originally Posted by chucky (Post 10279857)
Ok, you're right. It was rude and selfish of me to manipulate you guys for my own potential benefit. I'm sorry.

Rude or not, that's like asking someone for tips on how to drive their new manual transmission, then after all the advice comes in and doesn't seem to work, saying "Oh, by the way, I drive a 12 speed semi truck."

Soil_Sampler 01-17-10 01:03 AM

Yankee screwdriver
 
spiral
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/images/DKY1.jpg


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