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Linear Pull Brakes - Are there quality differences?

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Linear Pull Brakes - Are there quality differences?

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Old 01-23-10 | 07:16 AM
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Linear Pull Brakes - Are there quality differences?

I have a 2009 Trek 7.3 FX that has the Avid SD-3 linear pull brakes as original equipment.

The rear brake is very difficult to set up. Alignment goes off and I struggle to get it right.

I have searched reviews and these brakes are frequently said to be difficult.

Are "higher end" brakes better, i.e. easier to adjust unclip the noodle, etc.

What brake set would you replace these with?

Thanks

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Old 01-23-10 | 07:48 AM
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If there is a bike part with a wider range of quality than brakes, I'd like to know what it is.

Within just the linear pull family the quality difference that I see the most is how well they retain their alignment. If you think that SD3's are bad, stay away from ProMax. My favorites are SD7 and Shimano LX (without the parallel push mechanism).

Unclipping the noodle shouldn't be an issue unless they're set too close to the rim.
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Old 01-23-10 | 07:52 AM
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I am missing something. What is difficult about those linear pulls? Using the quick release function? Or what? Anything else gets more difficult.
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Old 01-23-10 | 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
If there is a bike part with a wider range of quality than brakes, I'd like to know what it is.
You would think from a public relations and safety stand point manufactures would not produce "cheap" brakes, yet they do. It has never made sense to me.
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Old 01-23-10 | 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by exRunner
You would think from a public relations and safety stand point manufactures would not produce "cheap" brakes, yet they do. It has never made sense to me.
Yup. And when a manufacturer specs a bike they start with the selling price and work backwards to determine what they can afford to give the customer for that much money. One of the first places they look to cut costs is the brakes.
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Old 01-23-10 | 09:08 AM
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Thank you for your replies
I have ordered a set of Avid SD7's for my Trek.
I am tired of fighting with the old set of brakes on this bike.
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Old 01-23-10 | 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by exRunner
You would think from a public relations and safety stand point manufactures would not produce "cheap" brakes, yet they do. It has never made sense to me.
With the exception of X-mart level bikes, and maybe even for these, current brakes aren't a safety issue no matter how cheap. They will all stop the bike. What better brakes do is hold their adjustment more reliably, have better "feel" and more progressive, predictable action, have better durability and weigh less.

As RG said, every bike is built to a price-point and the, lower the total cost, the more has to be sacrificed. The first place manufactures cut costs are the "hidden" components like bottom brackets and headsets. Next are the less visually obvious things like brakes.
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Old 01-23-10 | 09:44 AM
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Well I am one of those consumers that did not have a clue about brake quality.
The linear pull brakes all "look alike" to me.
Who woulda thunk....
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Old 01-23-10 | 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
With the exception of X-mart level bikes, and maybe even for these, current brakes aren't a safety issue no matter how cheap. They will all stop the bike. What better brakes do is hold their adjustment more reliably, have better "feel" and more progressive, predictable action, have better durability and weigh less.
You are correct, however, how does any of that not equate to "safety" for the average user?
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Old 01-23-10 | 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by exRunner
You are correct, however, how does any of that not equate to "safety" for the average user?
I think you are confusing "safety" with convenience and ease of use. Better brakes are easier to use and more durable but don't stop the bike any better in an emergency situation.
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Old 01-23-10 | 04:41 PM
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On MTBs I've had good luck with LX,XT,and XTR brakes.The XTs are just a bit heavier than the XTR.

Luck
Charlie
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Old 01-23-10 | 04:51 PM
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If the cheapies are taken apart and cleaned and any tight bearing bushings modified to provide a free moving and non sloppy fit then the cheapies can feel the same as the more expensive options. The problem seems to be that they don't come out of the box tuned that way all that often. So in my experience most of what you pay for in the better options is a more consistent fit, often a slightly nicer adjustment system with better matched return springs and the better looking finish. And in some cases the noodle may be better.

So with a little fiddling around with your SD3's you can likely make them work as nicely as the more expensive option.

Now if you're doing an upgrade that really sees a big improvment for the cost I'd suggest seeing if you can find one of the Avid Arch series. Of the parallel push styles I've tried these are by far the best. By their basic design any manufacturing tolerance effects are minimized rather than amplified like with the Shimano design.
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Old 01-24-10 | 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
I think you are confusing "safety" with convenience and ease of use. Better brakes are easier to use and more durable but don't stop the bike any better in an emergency situation.
Well...

Out of adjustment brakes can be dangerous (if they are out far enough)
Unpredictable brakes can be dangerous (depending on which direction they become unpredictable)

and a brake that is not convenient and easy to use can be dangerous, depending on the rider.
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Old 01-24-10 | 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
If there is a bike part with a wider range of quality than brakes, I'd like to know what it is.

Within just the linear pull family the quality difference that I see the most is how well they retain their alignment. If you think that SD3's are bad, stay away from ProMax. My favorites are SD7 and Shimano LX (without the parallel push mechanism).

Unclipping the noodle shouldn't be an issue unless they're set too close to the rim.
I'm with ya there. All that parallel push does is introduce many more wear points. Who needs it?
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Old 01-25-10 | 10:21 AM
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I would expect that as long as you buy a main-stream brand you'll be fine. I picked up two pairs of Shimano Alivios for less than $10 a side at my LBS. They stop my loaded xtracycle just fine.
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Old 01-25-10 | 10:30 AM
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I like my XT brakes and their dual pivots but they live on my mtb which does not see as much use as my more utilitarian bikes... they sacrifice some longevity because of the extra pivots but damn they work beautifully when you are hammering down the trail and are looking for good brake response.

The SD3's are good brakes... my 9 year daughter old uses my old ones on her mtb.

I wrote the nicest little how to on how to set up v brakes the other day... will have to see where I put that.
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Old 01-25-10 | 10:55 AM
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Let me know if I missed anything...

How to Service V brakes

Check to ensure the cables are moving freely and that the housings has no cracks or flaws... you will need to detach the brake cable from the brake itself but that is okay as you need to do this to set up the brake anyways.

If the cable is moving freely when you pull the brake lever (and do put a little resistance on the free end) and the housings check out we can go to step two.

If there is resistance you need to check the cable ends to make sure there are no burrs and that there is no frayed cable... if there is still a problem here it is an internal issue and the cable and or housing will need to be replaced.

After the cables and housings have been checked we can proceed.

At the brake lever, turn the barrel adjuster out 6-7 full turns... you may need to screw it all the way in first.

If your brake pads are badly worn, you need to replace them at this step and I always suggest Kool Stops for this.

At this point check the position of the brake arms relative to the vertical axis of the rim, they should be sitting at 90 degrees relative to this and changes here can be done by moving the spacers on the v brake pad itself. Many times the larger spacer is placed to the inside by default and the smaller spacer needs to be used instead.

Reposition the cable and with the brake arms in and brake pads aligned and firmly touching the rim, reattach the cable. The pinch bolt needs to be tightened and without a torque wrench you should see the cable compress to half it's diameter and at this point it should be secure. Over tighten this and you can strip bolts or weaken the cable.

Check the noodle and the fitting it goes into to to make sure there is no damage to either... lesser quality brakes use softer steel and this can be an area of failure while on better quality brakes this is rarely an issue. Having the noodle pull through during braking will cause catastrophic brake failure and could result in serious injury.

Moving along...

The wheel will not move but should turn when you screw the barrel adjuster all the way back in and this is where one will have nearly perfect lever travel for v brakes.

If the brake arms are off centre they can be adjusted with the set screw on the sides... these will use an allen wrench or a screwdriver. be careful as these screws can be easily stripped, especially those with screw heads.

When you tighten the screw it increases the spring tension and pulls that brake arm outwards while pulling the other inward... loosening the screw does the opposite.

Both of these screws should be in at least half way to give to adjustment room in both directions and to make sure the brakes have a minimum of tension on the springs. Once the brake is centered you can screw in both sides in equal increments to increase spring tension.

If the springs won't tension they are probably worn / fatigued and and a little life can be put back into them by detaching them where they clip at the top of the brake arm and bending them outwards just a little.

One can also remove the brake arms and reposition the set pins to alter spring tension, the default setting is the middle position on the brake boss. This step is also part of a full brake service as you can check and lube the bushings to make sure they move freely.

Once the brakes are the brakes are centered they should work really well.

Check the tightness of the cable by giving the brakes a dozen hard panic like pulls... you do not want the cable to slip.
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Old 01-25-10 | 03:15 PM
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I can attest to the Avid SD-3's crappy quality. I literally have to readjust the brakes every time I take the front wheel off. Right now, one spring tension screw is all the way in and the other is all the way out. Also, I need to take both front and back off because they both stick and inside needs cleaning. I see new brake calipers in my future....
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Old 01-26-10 | 01:40 AM
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I was having problems with a rear V-brake for a while, being unable to keep it properly centered. I just discovered that it was mainly due to the cable housing connected to it being way too long. The housing was therefore pushing the brake to one side, making the normal centering adjustments not very effective. I cut about 2 cm of housing off, and it now works a whole lot better. To check for this, undo the quick release, and let the housing settle where it wants to. If this is nowhere near where it needs to be when connected to the brake, then it might be useful to change the length.

I've actually had this bike for several years, and have had all sorts of odd problems that were all caused by shoddy manufacturing and assembly. All the parts were decent stuff (Deore and above) and I got it for a good price, but I'll never trust Norco or the shop I bought it from to build another bike for me. Problems have included the water bottle cage mounts not being properly attached to the frame (they soon came loose and rattled around in the frame holes until I got it fixed under warranty). The headset was not properly adjusted from the start (which took me several rides to realize, by which time the bearings had started to make divots in the race, which caused indexed steering), many bolts were not sufficiently tightened and came loose on my first ride, and now I find that some of the cable housing was the wrong length. I'm glad that I now know a lot more about bikes and can build them myself.

Last edited by Chris_W; 01-26-10 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 01-26-10 | 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by awesomejack
I can attest to the Avid SD-3's crappy quality. I literally have to readjust the brakes every time I take the front wheel off. Right now, one spring tension screw is all the way in and the other is all the way out. Also, I need to take both front and back off because they both stick and inside needs cleaning. I see new brake calipers in my future....
I wonder if the varied feelings about SD3's has something to do with when they were produced... mine are early models and have worked great and have set up others that worked fine.

My least favourite Avid is the old Shorty 4 canti... I gave up on these and nothing could stop them squealing like a cat in heat... I much prefer brakes that can stop you without doing this.
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