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MTB crankset matched with road components?

Old 04-01-10, 07:53 AM
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MTB crankset matched with road components?

OK, I'm building a touring bike.

I want to use components that I already have:
10-speed 105 brifters
10-speed 105 triple front derailleur
XTR long-cage rear derailleur
11-34 10-speed cassette
10-speed chain

Presently I am using a 10-speed 105 triple crankset with 30-39-50.

For lower gearing I would like to replace the crankset with an mtb 22-32-42.

It seems like this should work fine since both cranksets have a range of 20 teeth between the smallest and biggest rings. Just lower the front derail a bit as needed and good to go?

Or not? The mtb cranksets are designed to be used with 9-speed chain--any problem using them with a 10-speed?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-01-10, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
OK, I'm building a touring bike.

I want to use components that I already have:
10-speed 105 brifters
10-speed 105 triple front derailleur
XTR long-cage rear derailleur
11-34 10-speed cassette
10-speed chain

Presently I am using a 10-speed 105 triple crankset with 30-39-50.

For lower gearing I would like to replace the crankset with an mtb 22-32-42.

It seems like this should work fine since both cranksets have a range of 20 teeth between the smallest and biggest rings. Just lower the front derail a bit as needed and good to go?

Or not? The mtb cranksets are designed to be used with 9-speed chain--any problem using them with a 10-speed?

Thanks for your help!
Shouldn't be any problems. So will say that the curve of the front derailer is all wrong for that small a crank but I'm running mountain bike cranks on two road bikes using the same front I did for a 52 tooth crank without issues.

The only issue I see is that a 42/11 is a pretty low high gear. You'll spin it out easily. Look at a 44 or up to a 48 tooth outer. Shimano makes a trekking crank that is a 48/36/26 but they can be hard to find in the US. The inner ring can be changed to a 22 if you want a good low gear since the crank is actually a mountain bike crank with a larger outer ring.

Eidiot: Jenson is making a liar out of me. They have a Deore trekking crank for $125
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Old 04-01-10, 09:05 PM
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What is the rear dropout spacing on your frame? If it's 135mm, your chainline should be fine using a MTB crank and the typical BB suggested for it. If it's 130mm, you may want to look into using a shorter BB (if even possible) to get a better chainline. I would second the recommendation to look for a crank with a larger big ring. The Sugino XD-600 is pretty popular. It uses a square taper BB so you can easily get whichever length works best for your particular frame. The small ring is a 74mm BCD so you can use as low as a 24T ring if necessary.
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Old 04-01-10, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Eidiot: Jenson is making a liar out of me. They have a Deore trekking crank for $125
Nope, you're not lying. They have it listed but it's unavailable.

Here's the Sugino crank I mentioned in my first post: https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=405747
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Old 04-01-10, 09:13 PM
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the sugino crank won't work with a triple FD. the inner plate is shaped all wrong for the chainrings.

I used a 9sp double FD with my sugino 26-36-46 crank.
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Old 04-01-10, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
the sugino crank won't work with a triple FD. the inner plate is shaped all wrong for the chainrings.

I used a 9sp double FD with my sugino 26-36-46 crank.
Were you trying to use it with an Ultegra or Dura Ace 10 speed FD by chance? The 10 tooth difference between chainrings is too small for either of those deraillers. I'm using a 105 10 speed triple front derailler on a 52/42/30 triple and it works but I have about 3mm between the outer cage and my big ring in order to not hit the middle ring (it's spec'd for 11 teeth minimum difference). I tried an Ultegra first (spec'd for 13 teeth min) and it didn't even come close to working. I'm using a 105 9 speed triple front derailler on a different bike with a 52/42/28 triple and had no issues with clearance.
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Old 04-01-10, 09:23 PM
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yep, ultegra 10sp FD.

the plate kept rubbing everything.
double FD is more flexible, just a bit harder to setup when combined with a triple.
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Old 04-01-10, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
yep, ultegra 10sp FD.

the plate kept rubbing everything.
double FD is more flexible, just a bit harder to setup when combined with a triple.
Yeah, because the inner plate is too deep. These pictures aren't great but they show the difference in plate depths between the Ultegra and 105 10 speed triple FD's:




9 speed triple FD's will easily accept a 10 tooth difference between the middle and big rings (they were designed for 52/42/30 triples, at least non-Dura Ace were).
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Old 04-02-10, 12:02 AM
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Hey Guys--Just got home and see all this good info waiting for me. Right now my brain needs sleep--tomorrow I'll attack it--just wanted to say Thanks!
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Old 04-02-10, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Nope, you're not lying. They have it listed but it's unavailable.

Here's the Sugino crank I mentioned in my first post: https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=405747
Reading comprehension would be sooo handy SJS Cycles seems to have the Deore and, if you are feeling particularly rich, the XT. Don't know what shipping would be on either however. But that's the price of paradise, eh, ClarkinHawaii

Here's one on Fleabay for a very nice price...$75.
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Old 04-02-10, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Shouldn't be any problems. So will say that the curve of the front derailer is all wrong for that small a crank but I'm running mountain bike cranks on two road bikes using the same front I did for a 52 tooth crank without issues.

The only issue I see is that a 42/11 is a pretty low high gear. You'll spin it out easily. Look at a 44 or up to a 48 tooth outer. Shimano makes a trekking crank that is a 48/36/26 but they can be hard to find in the US. The inner ring can be changed to a 22 if you want a good low gear since the crank is actually a mountain bike crank with a larger outer ring.

Eidiot: Jenson is making a liar out of me. They have a Deore trekking crank for $125
Front derailleurs are cheap compared to cranksets. I could easily go to an mtb front derail, except that I have heard ominous warnings that, even though rear derails work fine with brifters, front derails do not.

The only components that I really NEED to keep are the brifters, since barend shifters are too uh . . . challenging in hilly traffic (for me, at least).

Since you know more about this than me, let me ask you this:

Pretend it's your project and money is no object (within reason). By this I mean that I want quality parts that will last me for the next 20 years of light-moderate use averaging one hour per day. I do NOT want overpriced components that are a little lighter in weight because they are made of weaker alloys which quickly wear out.

The frame is a Nashbar touring frame with rear dropouts spaced at 132.5 to accommodate both road and mtb wheels. I have already purchased an XT wheelset that will handle disk or rim brakes--my intention for now is to run cantis.

Don't let the cheap frame mislead you--I have ordered a Winwood muddy carbon front fork--and I'm thinking I might buy a titanium touring frame down the road and just transfer all these components to the new frame.

The rest of it is up for grabs. How would you spec it out for the perfect ride?

I hear what you're saying about the too-low high gear--Since I already have the 105 triple in 30-29-50, would it be feasible for me to replace the small ring with a granny? I'm at the spec limits for the present front derailleur, but a different one is fine as long as the brifters (or SOME brifters) work , , ,

EDIT--Although I quoted Cycco in this post, all other contributors are welcome and encouraged to contribute . . .(cash as well as ideas!)

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Old 04-02-10, 11:10 AM
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Can somebody assure me that 10-speed chains work ok or 8 or 9 speed cranksets/chainrings? I just saw an ebay ad for a Sugino crank like you are describing and the guy says "works with all chains up to and including 9 speed"

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150429634566
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Old 04-02-10, 11:15 AM
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For mixing mountain cranks with road shifters, I'd seriously consider Campy shifters. While Shimano rear shifters don't care whether you use MTB or road rear derailleurs, the same is not true of front shifters and front derailleurs. STI shifters don't work right with MTB front derailleurs and road front derailleurs are often marginal when used with MTB cranksets.

Most Campy Ergo shifters (aside from their lower end 2007 and 2008 models) work well with just about any front derailleur, - double or triple. The reason is that don't attempt index the front shifts the way Shimano does. You get about 10 clicks on the front shifter vs. 3 or 4 on Shimano front shifters. You don't need to worry about differences in throw and getting the chain line exactly right.

I could sort of get my STIs working with a road derailleur and a MTB triple but it was never great. I switched to Campy shifters, left the Shimano drive train in place and have been very pleased. The Caveat is with rear shifting. It just so happens that 10 speed Campy shifters work with 8 speed Shimano derailleurs and cassettes but you'll need a JTek Shiftmate or something similar for other combinations.
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Old 04-02-10, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Front derailleurs are cheap compared to cranksets. I could easily go to an mtb front derail, except that I have heard ominous warnings that, even though rear derails work fine with brifters, front derails do not.

The only components that I really NEED to keep are the brifters, since barend shifters are too uh . . . challenging in hilly traffic (for me, at least).
Since you want to stick with the STI (not an issue really), I'd stick with a road front derailer. Try the one you have now on a new crank before you shell out any money. Personally, I prefer the Tiagra road triples front derailer to more expensive front derailers. They are wider and work better on triples.

Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Since you know more about this than me, let me ask you this:

Pretend it's your project and money is no object (within reason). By this I mean that I want quality parts that will last me for the next 20 years of light-moderate use averaging one hour per day. I do NOT want overpriced components that are a little lighter in weight because they are made of weaker alloys which quickly wear out.
I've gone done this route on many more bikes then I should confess to. If money is no object:

Handlebars: Salsa Bell Laps. Very confortable with a slight flare of the drops outward. The STI set up at a very comfortable angle on the bars.

Headset: King. Some don't like them but I have several and they are very smooth and tough. Threadless, of course. (Dead simple to work on)

Fork: If you want to tour, I'd stick with a touring fork. Makes rack mounting easier.

Crank: Although I hate to give Shimano business (they own every thing bicycle), it's hard to go wrong with their external bearing cranks. As dead simple to work on as threadless headsets.

Seatpost: Race Face Deus or evolve. Decoupled tilt and position adjustments.

Wheels: Phil Wood hubs, Mavic A719 (or Velocity equivalent) and DT Alpine III spokes. Positively bombproof. If you can find OCR (off center rims), I'd use them. I have Ritcheys but they don't make them in 36 spoke

Rear derailer: XT or XTR as long as they aren't Rapid Rise

Saddle: Brooks Alpe d'Huez...because it's really, really cool

Frame: A Cannondale T2 or Bruce Gordon BLT. Super high zoot: a Vanilla Cycles touring bike but there's like a 5 year wait list. Nothing really wrong with the Nashbar. At least it's not an LHT (mooo!)

Pedals: Shimano M520. Cheap, tough but Shimano...Damnit!

Brakes: Paul's Touring cantilevers. Get the Moon Units to go with them

This is what it looks like



Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
The frame is a Nashbar touring frame with rear dropouts spaced at 132.5 to accommodate both road and mtb wheels. I have already purchased an XT wheelset that will handle disk or rim brakes--my intention for now is to run cantis.

Don't let the cheap frame mislead you--I have ordered a Winwood muddy carbon front fork--and I'm thinking I might buy a titanium touring frame down the road and just transfer all these components to the new frame.

The rest of it is up for grabs. How would you spec it out for the perfect ride?
Nothing wrong with the Nashbar frame. A pretty good frame for a very good price. Cantilevers have been stopping bikes for decades. They've stopped my fully loaded touring bike rocketing down many mountain passes at speeds that aren't prudent at which to be riding a fully loaded touring bike


Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
I hear what you're saying about the too-low high gear--Since I already have the 105 triple in 30-29-50, would it be feasible for me to replace the small ring with a granny? I'm at the spec limits for the present front derailleur, but a different one is fine as long as the brifters (or SOME brifters) work , , ,[B]
You should be able to fit down to a 24 tooth cog on that crank (74mm bolt circle). That might be the cheapest way to get low gears. $20 vs $75.
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Old 04-02-10, 01:28 PM
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IDEA: Since I already own 10-speed brifters and 10-speed bar ends, I could use the left bar end (friction) and the right brifter (indexed rear). Leave the left brifter on there for the brake lever. Nobody would notice, right?

I had to look up that Brooks model. I just received the B67 in dark green (to go with the dark green frame--also dark green was on sale for $45). Yours is cooler but my rear end likes mine better--at least it will after I soak it in ball-glove oil a la Sheldon. Now it's like a board, of course.

Put a smaller chainring on my present 105 crankset. I have to wonder about the derailleur, though.

The Campy tip is something to look into.

Another idea is look up the top-selling touring bikes with low gearing and see how they are spec'd.

Somebody mentioned--"try it before you shell out the money"--I don't know how you do that, but it sure sounds nice . . .
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Old 04-02-10, 01:32 PM
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Hmmm I notice that nobody is stepping up to say unequivocally that Yes, 10-speed chains work fine on 8 or 9 speed chainrings. Perhaps if I inquire again . . . What I'm asking is if the thinner chain links are too narrow/would rub/bind/wear faster on supposedly thicker/wider teeth made for wider chains.
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Old 04-02-10, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Hmmm I notice that nobody is stepping up to say unequivocally that Yes, 10-speed chains work fine on 8 or 9 speed chainrings. Perhaps if I inquire again . . . What I'm asking is if the thinner chain links are too narrow/would rub/bind/wear faster on supposedly thicker/wider teeth made for wider chains.
It makes a difference on the cassette because of the narrow cogs. Probably doesn't make much difference on the chainrings however I can't say this with much confidence since I haven't tried a 10 speed chain and 9 speed chainwheels. I have used 8 speed chainwheels and 9 speed chains without issue.

If you are going to use the 105 crank with a smaller inner ring, you shouldn't have any problems. I'd try the smaller inner chainring with your current crank first and see if the front derailer will handle it (it probably will). If not, you're only out about $20.
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Old 04-02-10, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
It makes a difference on the cassette because of the narrow cogs. Probably doesn't make much difference on the chainrings however I can't say this with much confidence since I haven't tried a 10 speed chain and 9 speed chainwheels. I have used 8 speed chainwheels and 9 speed chains without issue.

If you are going to use the 105 crank with a smaller inner ring, you shouldn't have any problems. I'd try the smaller inner chainring with your current crank first and see if the front derailer will handle it (it probably will). If not, you're only out about $20.
Yes, this is what I'm thinking--
if the 105 triple fd cannot handle it, what's your recommendation for the next fr. der. to try?
I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on that beautiful bike!
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Old 04-02-10, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Hmmm I notice that nobody is stepping up to say unequivocally that Yes, 10-speed chains work fine on 8 or 9 speed chainrings. Perhaps if I inquire again . . . What I'm asking is if the thinner chain links are too narrow/would rub/bind/wear faster on supposedly thicker/wider teeth made for wider chains.
Many cranksets sold during the period where high end components could be bought as 9 or 10 speed were spec'd as 9/10 speed cranksets. I own two of them and run one with a 9 speed chain and the other with a 10 speed chain. No issues with either crank. For cassettes, I've installed a 9 speed chain on a 7 speed cassette and it shifted perfectly. The thinner chain simply has more clearance between cogs than it really needs.

One thing to understand is that aside from the new Campy 11 speed chains, the width of chains has always been reduced by removing material from the exterior. The inner width has remained the same from 5 through 10 speed chains.
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Old 04-02-10, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
It makes a difference on the cassette because of the narrow cogs.
The cogs themselves aren't more narrow but the spacing between them is, due to the outside width of the chain decreasing and the need to pack more cogs into the same space as fewer cogs. Campy 11 again is likely different.
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Old 04-02-10, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Many cranksets sold during the period where high end components could be bought as 9 or 10 speed were spec'd as 9/10 speed cranksets. I own two of them and run one with a 9 speed chain and the other with a 10 speed chain. No issues with either crank. For cassettes, I've installed a 9 speed chain on a 7 speed cassette and it shifted perfectly. The thinner chain simply has more clearance between cogs than it really needs.

One thing to understand is that aside from the new Campy 11 speed chains, the width of chains has always been reduced by removing material from the exterior. The inner width has remained the same from 5 through 10 speed chains.
WOW Super good info--just what I wanted to know--Thanks!
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Old 04-02-10, 10:10 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Yes, this is what I'm thinking--
if the 105 triple fd cannot handle it, what's your recommendation for the next fr. der. to try?
I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on that beautiful bike!
A Tiagra would be a good choice.

Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
The cogs themselves aren't more narrow but the spacing between them is, due to the outside width of the chain decreasing and the need to pack more cogs into the same space as fewer cogs. Campy 11 again is likely different.
I've found information that says the cogs are thinner (0.0071") and the spacers are thinner (0.0083").
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Old 04-02-10, 10:32 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
A Tiagra would be a good choice.



I've found information that says the cogs are thinner (0.0071") and the spacers are thinner (0.0083").
Please post a link to this info--I've found a bunch of 24tooth rings with 5 boltholes and short tabs (for my Hollowtech II external bearings) and 74 bcd:
https://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1270267135/ref=sr_st?keywords=chainring+24t&page=1&bbn=3375251&rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3Achainring+24 t&sort=price

On the face of it, they should all work. BUT They all make a big point of specifying what speed system they are compatible with . . . none for 10, of course--haha

I want to know exactly what the ramifications are . . . Also, do I not want a steel inner for grinding out those mountains--One Sugino trekking crankset I saw had alloy outers and steel granny--sounded reasonable . . .

So with a 24- tooth granny and a 39-tooth middle, the chain will have to jump up 15 teeth in one step--I'll read up on the Tiagra . . .
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Old 04-02-10, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The only issue I see is that a 42/11 is a pretty low high gear. You'll spin it out easily.
30mph on 700c wheels is just under 100rpm on a 42/11 (assuming my math is right). Do you really need to pedal much faster than 30 mph on a touring bike?

Paul
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Old 04-03-10, 01:43 AM
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I use a Shimano M442 crank set on my Surly LHT.It came with a 26,36,48 t but I wanted a lower gear set and got it with the Shimano M442 it has 22,32,44t gear works great set up was easy.
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