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BB Square Taper Spindle / 2 OR 3 JIS?

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BB Square Taper Spindle / 2 OR 3 JIS?

Old 04-17-10, 03:01 PM
  #1  
OldRoadman
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BB Square Taper Spindle / 2 OR 3 JIS?

Hi ... there is a long spindle on Ebay that may be perfect for my next project (perfect drive side length). He is advertising a 3 taper angle. Does this exceed the standard JIS square taper spec. for Japanese or English. Is JIS strictly 2 taper??
Hoping to use with used Sugino AT triple cranks.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Thanks, Bill
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Old 04-17-10, 03:14 PM
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https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html Maybe he just doesn't know.
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Old 04-17-10, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OldRoadman View Post
Hi ... there is a long spindle on Ebay that may be perfect for my next project (perfect drive side length). He is advertising a 3 taper angle. Does this exceed the standard JIS square taper spec. for Japanese or English. Is JIS strictly 2 taper??
Hoping to use with used Sugino AT triple cranks.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Thanks, Bill


The AT crank came with a 124.5mm BB axle. Labeled 3UB ..... 32mm/52mm/40.5mm(left/center/right)

The perfect replacement BB for a AT crank is 127.5mm cartridge BB, with a 1mm driveside spacer. This is what I've used at least, on a '83 Stumpjumper.

As far as tapers go, there are slightly different JIS tapers.... and it's a can of worms.
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Old 04-17-10, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
As far as tapers go, there are slightly different JIS tapers.... and it's a can of worms.
Not really, JIS is well defined and all makers adhere to the same standard. However there is another standard, ISO. As a rule, Japanese makers (Shimano, Sun Tour, Suguino, SR) use JIS dimensions and European makers (Campy, et. al.) use ISO but there are exceptions.

All JIS and ISO tapers are 2. The slight difference is in the dimensions of the square at the beginning of the taper and ISO is slightly smaller than JIS.

To the OP: your e-bay seller doesn't know what he is selling.
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Old 04-18-10, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Not really, JIS is well defined and all makers adhere to the same standard. However there is another standard, ISO. As a rule, Japanese makers (Shimano, Sun Tour, Suguino, SR) use JIS dimensions and European makers (Campy, et. al.) use ISO but there are exceptions.

All JIS and ISO tapers are 2. The slight difference is in the dimensions of the square at the beginning of the taper and ISO is slightly smaller than JIS.

The standard looks good on paper, but JIS tapers are not all equal in practice. For instance, a Phil Wood and a Tange/Shimano BB will fit differently in depth.

The 3UB axle for the Sugino AT is JIS, but it is slightly larger at the ends than current JIS ones.

Sure, there are standards .... but we're not talking super precise manufacturing here, so yes, JIS tapers do vary in the real world.
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Old 04-18-10, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
The standard looks good on paper, but JIS tapers are not all equal in practice. For instance, a Phil Wood and a Tange/Shimano BB will fit differently in depth.

The 3UB axle for the Sugino AT is JIS, but it is slightly larger at the ends than current JIS ones.

Sure, there are standards .... but we're not talking super precise manufacturing here, so yes, JIS tapers do vary in the real world.
Phil Wood square tapers come in three versions https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/b...kets.html#phil and they're probably all 2 degrees.
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Old 04-18-10, 11:56 AM
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Sugino 75 track cranksets are ISO just in case.
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Old 04-21-10, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Not really, JIS is well defined and all makers adhere to the same standard. However there is another standard, ISO. As a rule, Japanese makers (Shimano, Sun Tour, Suguino, SR) use JIS dimensions and European makers (Campy, et. al.) use ISO but there are exceptions.

All JIS and ISO tapers are 2. The slight difference is in the dimensions of the square at the beginning of the taper and ISO is slightly smaller than JIS.

To the OP: your e-bay seller doesn't know what he is selling.
Spindle arrived today and it is exactly as the Ebay seller described. Marking is 3H and is a 3 taper. The Sugino AT will not go on very far at all.
Anybody interested in this thing? 43mm drive side, 37.5mm left side, over-all 132.5mm, 3.
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Old 04-21-10, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OldRoadman View Post
Spindle arrived today and it is exactly as the Ebay seller described. Marking is 3H and is a 3 taper. The Sugino AT will not go on very far at all.
Anybody interested in this thing? 43mm drive side, 37.5mm left side, over-all 132.5mm, 3.
How did you measure the taper?
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Old 04-21-10, 08:29 PM
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Whats the bike and whats the crank that are u trying to match??? U should have started saying that i believe, or... if the bike is pretty old sometimes i better get a new set of cranks. Old cheap bike stuff is pretty bad quality and usually stuff doesnt match at all and it is hard to find also.
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Old 04-22-10, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by OldRoadman View Post
Spindle arrived today and it is exactly as the Ebay seller described. Marking is 3H and is a 3 taper. The Sugino AT will not go on very far at all.
Anybody interested in this thing? 43mm drive side, 37.5mm left side, over-all 132.5mm, 3.

The BB you purchased was/is nowhere near what would work. I'm not sure why you still bought it ..... but it's water under the bridge at this point.

As I stated, a 127mm cartridge type BB with a 1mm or so spacer on the driveside works perfectly for the Sugino AT cranks. I know this because I have one. A Shimano UN54 would suit you fine.

For those that don't know, these are very good quality cranks from the early 80's. They came on many Stumpjumpers. It's a JIS taper, 110/74 triple... very low Q, between 145 and 150.
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Old 04-22-10, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
All JIS and ISO tapers are 2. The slight difference is in the dimensions of the square at the beginning of the taper and ISO is slightly smaller than JIS.

To the OP: your e-bay seller doesn't know what he is selling.
3deg taper axles were used on some inexpensive bottom brackets in the 70s and 80s; some of these are still in circulation:
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Old 04-22-10, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
3deg taper axles were used on some inexpensive bottom brackets in the 70s and 80s; some of these are still in circulation:
Wow, I learn something new every day. Thanks for the info as I was unaware of these older 3 spindles.
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Old 04-22-10, 09:34 AM
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Just to be clear John, the AT crankset is totally unrelated to the Maxy. It was Sugino's first generation of what we could consider the modern touring triple crankset. JIS 2 degree taper, 110/74 BCD.

30 years later Sugino is still using that standard. I give them high props for this, unlike Shimano who in my opinion has really f'd things up with all the BCD's they have made, and trying to reinvent the BB every 5 years.
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Old 04-22-10, 01:01 PM
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I just could not resist my curiosity... so I bought it anyway. I did not measure the taper angle, but you can see by the taper cut vs. the standard JIS 2 it is steeper. As far as it not working I think it would have if 2. My thought was that the non drive side would have a more equal distance compared to the drive side being 37.5mm. I have installed a few of these before and you never get that equal distance between arms. My current LP has a left side that is 5mm closer than the drive side with the recommended spindle (asymmetric cup cone). Anyway, with the AT and a 37.5mm drive side, I was 3-4mm from the chain stay. With the 43mm drive side I was hoping to get me around 7-9mm clearance and a better driveline.

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Old 04-22-10, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
Just to be clear John, the AT crankset is totally unrelated to the Maxy. It was Sugino's first generation of what we could consider the modern touring triple crankset. JIS 2 degree taper, 110/74 BCD.
I know. I have a couple on my bikes. But the OP said he was looking at a replacement spindle described as having 3deg taper. This would not work with his AT arms.

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Old 04-22-10, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I know. I have a couple on my bikes. But the OP said he was looking at a replacement spindle described as having 3deg taper. This would not work with his AT arms.
Just to clarify... Although the Ebay listing said it was a 3.... there was a question as to whether he really knew it was a 2 or 3 taper. Yes, I know I needed a 2 but I had to feed my curiosity and order it anyways... OK. I'm out $7.75.
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