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Is this normal?

Old 05-03-10, 08:09 PM
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barefootdan
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Is this normal?

Hey all,
A friend of mine just gave him an older road bike of his. It hasn't been ridden is a long while so i began to tighten and adjust most of everything. As i got to the test ride, i heard some clanking in the back, i look at the back closer and saw that the 4 biggest cogs on my cassette (i hope thats correct terminology) were able to spin slightly while i held the lower 4, or if the chain was on the lower 4. When the chain is on one of upper 4, the lower 4 cogs can turn, but very slightly.

The spin isn't a huge spin, its a tiny wiggle, but i have never seen this before and i just wanted to make sure it was ok.

any thoughts?

thanks
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Old 05-03-10, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
Hey all,
A friend of mine just gave him an older road bike of his. It hasn't been ridden is a long while so i began to tighten and adjust most of everything. As i got to the test ride, i heard some clanking in the back, i look at the back closer and saw that the 4 biggest cogs on my cassette (i hope thats correct terminology) were able to spin slightly while i held the lower 4, or if the chain was on the lower 4. When the chain is on one of upper 4, the lower 4 cogs can turn, but very slightly.

The spin isn't a huge spin, its a tiny wiggle, but i have never seen this before and i just wanted to make sure it was ok.

any thoughts?

thanks
Video?
I'm having trouble visualizing this problem
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Old 05-03-10, 09:06 PM
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reptilezs
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lock ring on tight? aluminum freehub body?
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Old 05-03-10, 09:09 PM
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barefootdan
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hm, cant do a video right now. ill try to elaborate.

Its as though the cassette broken? I dont think it is cause itd be much worse, but then again, this is why im here. Whenever i shift into the smaller 4 gears (size wise) the bigger 4 can move together separately from the smaller 4. By moving i mean spin slightly. kind of like the tiny amount of play you get right before your cassette clicks to the next [gear?]. It wont click into a new spot, but it has about the same amount of play. i can hear something in the back of my bike making a sound when i hit a bump, which i believe this is it since ive looked and made sure everything else is tight.
anyways, to sum it up in simpler words, picture the whole cassette. the chain is on the smallest cog. i can move the 4 biggest cogs (by move i mean spin as though it was moving with a chain on it) a tiny amount. The smaller 4 cogs wont move when i move the 4 big cogs which makes me worry.

I hope that kind of gives a picture. ill try to get pictures or a video soon, if this didnt help
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Old 05-03-10, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by reptilezs View Post
lock ring on tight? aluminum freehub body?
The lockring is on tight. i dont have a chain whip, so maybe it is a bit loose. Im not sure about the freehub body. I just got the bike from a friend, so im kind of new. Its a trek 1000 if that helps.
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Old 05-03-10, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
The lockring is on tight. i dont have a chain whip, so maybe it is a bit loose. Im not sure about the freehub body. I just got the bike from a friend, so im kind of new. Its a trek 1000 if that helps.
Prehaps your cassette is missing a spacer preventing it from tightening properly
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Old 05-04-10, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cnnrmccloskey View Post
Prehaps your cassette is missing a spacer preventing it from tightening properly
i hope thats the problem. im low on money at the moment, so something major would suck.

if anyone else knows whats going on, help is appriciated
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Old 05-04-10, 05:01 PM
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How many teeth on the smallest cassette cog???
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Old 05-04-10, 05:24 PM
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I can't imagine a cassette turning on the freehub. What is a tiny amount? Real tiny = loose cassette, tighten it and you will be fine.

A quick stop at your favorite bike shop, they might do it for free for you, or at least take a quick look at it. Diagnosing a problem via the internet is difficult, with no pictures, even more difficult.


Good luck, hope it is something simple.
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Old 05-04-10, 08:22 PM
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barefootdan
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
How many teeth on the smallest cassette cog???
11teeth on the smallest.


Also, here is a video of the problem. Hope it helps

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4854/mvi0262.mp4
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Old 05-05-10, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
11teeth on the smallest.


Also, here is a video of the problem. Hope it helps

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4854/mvi0262.mp4
That's what I thought. The freehub body you have does not accept a Hyperglide-C 11t cog. Here's the difference (Hyperglide-C left, Hyperglide right):


Remove the lockring and take the sprockets off and you'll see that the end of the splines go to the very end and doesn't provide room for the 11t cog to slide on far enough to pinch the rest of the stack.
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Old 05-05-10, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
That's what I thought. The freehub body you have does not accept a Hyperglide-C 11t cog. Here's the difference (Hyperglide-C left, Hyperglide right):


Remove the lockring and take the sprockets off and you'll see that the end of the splines go to the very end and doesn't provide room for the 11t cog to slide on far enough to pinch the rest of the stack.
+1
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Old 05-05-10, 07:10 AM
  #13  
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DannoXYZ identified the problem, the solution is to get a cassette with a 12 tooth smallest cog. If the next smallest cog on your present cassette is 13T or higher, then you could just find a 12T cog and use just that.
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Old 05-05-10, 09:23 AM
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barefootdan
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kk sounds like it might be the problem. when i get home ill count the teeth.

Edit: But i was thinking, if its just the 11 tooth that shouldnt be there, why are the other 3 lowest cogs not moving also?

Last edited by barefootdan; 05-05-10 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 05-05-10, 12:42 PM
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the next smallest is a 12, then it goes to 14.
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Old 05-05-10, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
kk sounds like it might be the problem. when i get home ill count the teeth.

Edit: But i was thinking, if its just the 11 tooth that shouldnt be there, why are the other 3 lowest cogs not moving also?
I may be an issue like this:


The larger cogs generate more torque and force at the splines and may have gouged out the splines on the freehub body. This lets them wiggle more than the smaller cogs.
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Old 05-05-10, 04:00 PM
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Barefoot, the stack of cogs in your cassette is just riveted together. If the setup hase been loose like this for some time and a bunch of miles the rivets will have stretched and worn loose. Now all the parts are sort of floating and relying on the splines to hold things together. Why some move together and others don't may well be due to the way the rivets wore or broke. Also both the 12 and 14 tooth cogs are actually loose cogs and only the rest are riveted together. This likely has something to do with what you're seeing.
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Old 05-05-10, 04:14 PM
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i took off the lockring and this is what i saw

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7952/img0265gr.jpg

yet, when i was taking off the lockring....it wasnt even tight. so ill put it back on tight, yet i dont have a chain whip or the lockring tool, so ill try my best.
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Old 05-05-10, 04:41 PM
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barefootdan
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well, seems to be the stupidest reason why, the lockring was loose...after all that.

Sorry for the mishap, but thanks for the help!
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Old 05-05-10, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
i took off the lockring and this is what i saw

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7952/img0265gr.jpg

yet, when i was taking off the lockring....it wasnt even tight. so ill put it back on tight, yet i dont have a chain whip or the lockring tool, so ill try my best.
You don't need the chainwhip for installation, only for removal. The fact that you were able to remove the lockring without a removal tool or a chainwhip indicates that it was way loose as you discovered.
You will need a lockring tool to tighten it up.
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Old 05-05-10, 06:52 PM
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not normal. take it to a LBS for diagnosis and repair.
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Old 05-05-10, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
You don't need the chainwhip for installation, only for removal. The fact that you were able to remove the lockring without a removal tool or a chainwhip indicates that it was way loose as you discovered.
You will need a lockring tool to tighten it up.
+1

Spend the 5 or 7 bucks on the chainring tool. You will not get it anywhere near tight enough otherwise. You can buy the chainwhip later if you ever need to remove a cassette.

Edit: No need to take it to a shop yet. Get the right tool and tighten it up correctly. That lockring needs to be way tighter than your hand or a screw driver or anything else will get it.
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Old 05-05-10, 08:01 PM
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well im about to take it in for a tune up tomorrow, should i just say its loose and needs tightening?
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Old 05-05-10, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JiveTurkey View Post
+1
Edit: No need to take it to a shop yet. Get the right tool and tighten it up correctly. That lockring needs to be way tighter than your hand or a screw driver or anything else will get it.
What about that picture of the freehub body he posted - thing looks fried, doesn't it?
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Old 05-05-10, 11:35 PM
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barefootdan
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge View Post
What about that picture of the freehub body he posted - thing looks fried, doesn't it?
i think it is just the picture. i didnt look or feel bad to me
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