cartridge headset match (or go with ball bearings)
06-13-10, 03:56 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 857
Bikes: (shortlist) Cyclops, Marinoni, Mariposa, Air Firday, Pocket Rocket Pro, NWT, SLX Fuso, Claude Pottie (France) x3, Masi Team 3v, Lemond Zurich, Bianchi OS
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times
in
22 Posts
cartridge headset match (or go with ball bearings)
I am repacking a bunch of headsets this weekend and one has me a bit stumped.
the headset is Shimano 600 but it has bearing cartridges not simple bearings. (or at least the cartridges shown in the photo are what came out of the headset when I took it apart.)
My LBS tells me a) they need to know the headset type in order to match the worn cartridges (I couldn't remember when I was there this afternoon and so I would like to avoid the need to return) and B) they might not even be able to get them anyway.
But it doesn't seem right does it make sense that this setup (Shimano 600) would require or take cartrdge bearings (I would have thought cartridges post-dated 600) and if not, can I use straight ballbearings instead? and if so, what size?
thanks
Peter
the headset is Shimano 600 but it has bearing cartridges not simple bearings. (or at least the cartridges shown in the photo are what came out of the headset when I took it apart.)
My LBS tells me a) they need to know the headset type in order to match the worn cartridges (I couldn't remember when I was there this afternoon and so I would like to avoid the need to return) and B) they might not even be able to get them anyway.
But it doesn't seem right does it make sense that this setup (Shimano 600) would require or take cartrdge bearings (I would have thought cartridges post-dated 600) and if not, can I use straight ballbearings instead? and if so, what size?
thanks
Peter
Last edited by pstock; 06-13-10 at 03:58 PM. Reason: update
06-13-10, 04:22 PM
#2
Senior Member
Google lead me to this: https://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...tem_id=TA-1400
To answer some other questions, cartridge bearings have been around for a long time. I don't know how early their use in headsets started but everything I've read on your particular headset describes it as using cartridge bearings. Headsets designed for cartridge bearings definitely can NOT be used without cartridges and just balls. The cups are not designed with the geometry or material spec for loose ball bearings.
To answer some other questions, cartridge bearings have been around for a long time. I don't know how early their use in headsets started but everything I've read on your particular headset describes it as using cartridge bearings. Headsets designed for cartridge bearings definitely can NOT be used without cartridges and just balls. The cups are not designed with the geometry or material spec for loose ball bearings.
06-13-10, 04:33 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 37,903
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5354 Post(s)
Liked 1,797 Times
in
1,017 Posts
+1, forget guessing the vintage.
Headset either have ball races to accept loose (or in retainer) balls, or seats to accept cartridge bearings It's strictly one or the other, and can't be switched.
Headset either have ball races to accept loose (or in retainer) balls, or seats to accept cartridge bearings It's strictly one or the other, and can't be switched.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
06-13-10, 05:42 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,089 Times
in
736 Posts
The cartridge bearing Ultegra/600 heasdet was HP-6500. They date from at least 1995 as I installed one on my new Litespeed that year. They were, BTW, a great headset. Very durable, smooth and a real bargain.
The earlier loose (retainer held) ball 600 headset was, IIRC, HP-6200.
The bearings in these two models were definitely not interchangable.
The earlier loose (retainer held) ball 600 headset was, IIRC, HP-6200.
The bearings in these two models were definitely not interchangable.
06-13-10, 06:39 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 857
Bikes: (shortlist) Cyclops, Marinoni, Mariposa, Air Firday, Pocket Rocket Pro, NWT, SLX Fuso, Claude Pottie (France) x3, Masi Team 3v, Lemond Zurich, Bianchi OS
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times
in
22 Posts
many thanks again all.
I love this place.
peter
I love this place.
peter
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lopek77
Bicycle Mechanics
6
02-09-15 09:06 PM
