MAMARONECKMARC

Koga Miyata has begun offering the Alfine 11 with Signature Series bikes
https://www.koga-signature.com/en/Kog...e-Gearing.aspx.

What concerns me about the Alfine 11 is the low sprocket ratio. Rohloff only allows a sprocket ratio of no lower that 2.35.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/sp...ios/index.html

Koga Miyata installs a 42T/16T setup for a healthy ratio of 2.63. Koga Miytat sells bikes with the Alfine 8 at a ratio of 2.21 (42T/19T), which is slightly below what Rohloff would warranty. The Alfine 11 is a whole different story. In order to get the high gear, low gear and close gear range increments of 13%ish (except for the granny which is 29%), the Alfine 11 is set up with a 38T/21T for a low sprocket ratio of 1.80. This means that the torque forces on the Alfine 11 Hub exceed the Rohloff allowable specs by over 30% (2.35/1.80). As the Alfine 11 is brand new and of new design, I have a tough time believing it is going to withstand torque forces that a Rohloff can't.

tatfiend 

MAMARONECKMARC

The Rohloff is also warranted to stand up to use by "world class athletes" as long as the 2.35:1 input ratio, or a 2.5:1 ratio for users who weigh over 100 Kg, is not exceeded per the Rohloff manual. This includes tandem use too!

The Nexus 8 seems to be quite strong as it is being used on MTBs with some pretty extreme low input ratios per reports posted on the Geared Hub Bikes Yahoo group linked to below in my signature block. The Dutch are also using it in some Bakfiets cargo bike designs apparently without problems.

The Rohloff gets away with specifying such a high input ratio as it does due to the extreme internal reduction available in the lowest gears, something the Shimano does not offer. Staying within the 2.35:1 specified input limit the Rohloff can be given a low of under 20 gear inches while the Shimano 11 speed hub as installed in the mentioned Kogo Miyata only allows a 25.7" gear inch low gear at the 1.8:1 input ratio used and a high of about 105" gear inches. The low gear internal ratio on the Shimano 11 speed is typical of Shimano, NuVinci and SRAM designs while the Rohloff is a unique design.

BTW the SRAM iM9 allows a input ratio of 1.73:1 per the SRAM published specs and with it's direct drive 1:1 low gear the Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub allows input ratios approaching unity. The new wide ratio versions of the SA hub seem to be standing up to it too. Prior to shutting down their British factory SA documentation specified a recommended minimum input ratio for all of their older design hubs of 2:1. SRAM limits are 1.8:1 to 2:1 depending on hub model other than the iM9 and Dual Drive hubs.

Mr IGH

Thats what they said about the Alfine 8 speed. Shimano's RD budget is larger than Rolhoff annual sales, I wouldn't sell the Alfine 11 short before anyone has seen on....

`Orum

I noticed they say on their site, "(18T; for outward assembling only)". What do they mean by outward assembly...just, all prebuilt bikes/wheels with that hub? Seems like they're playing it safe, in case a user puts a small chain ring in font.

tatfiend 

They are referring to the direction of sprocket dishing as Shimano sprockets are dished. The larger ones can be installed with the dish in either direction but this is not true for the smaller sprockets, particularly the Alfine versions with the chain guard. I would presume there is a likelihood of interference petween hub and sprocket if installed with dish the wrong way. BTW so far as I know Nexus sprockets w/o the chain guard as well as both Sturmey Archer and SRAM sprockets should be useable. Exceptions are SA 8 speed hub sprockets and SRAM iM9 sprockets.

NormanF

Actually, it costs half of the Rohloff so if you considered a wider speed hub, Shimano now looks like the better deal!

tcs

I'm seeing USA advertised prices around $600 for the still unavailable Alfine 11, although it's unclear if this is for everything or if the cassette, non-turn washers, cog, shifter, etc. are not included and will be at additional cost. The advertised price out of New Zealand, where it is claimed the Alfine 11 is available, was around $720USD.

The Rohloff is available for around $1000 off German web sites.

And yet the initial release of Shimano's 3-, 7- and 8-speed hubs were all problematic.

When Shimano introduced the Alfine 8, they had a huge marketing push @ Interbike with show bikes built around the hub by America's top custom bike artists. The Alfine 11 @ Interbike 2010? Shimano practically hid it. What's up with that?

Mr IGH

That price includes a VAT, that should put the US price at ~$600.

That's true, and Rohloff has a 10% out of box failure rate, yet people gush over it, go figure....

fietsbob

footnote that 10% figure , ouote sources to look up.. this aint Faux News.

Mr IGH

LOL, maybe we're CBS ala Dan Rather, got any forged MS Word docs? It was reported on mtbr forum, seems to be common knowledge. This guy says 2% others say it's as high as 10%....

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=464277

fietsbob

guess the the forensics of Why? what was the cause that made so it failed..
is not given in a raw %
fWIW the post '03 hubs have a better external oil seal,
My '04 bike was built with 03 hub, & prior nylon seal.
So oil leaked out on the floor..
but service was straight forward for the seal substitution
it only had to go to el Cerrito /Oakland . from Oregon.

Mr IGH

So you've had an out of box failure, why act so surprised? I'll wait for the Alfine 11, I hate limited production by hand, the results are always the same, crappy QC. It'll be interesting to see how Rolhoff fares in the face of the Alfine 11.

fietsbob

Hey, it wasn't ''out of the box''.. I got the hub in a complete bike for 1/2 of the cost,
barely more than the hub retails for..

and Koga Miyata WTR they stopped even importing them to the states ,
so I got no complaints
I know how to fix most things , an oil leak is not a failure ,
they will still work dry for a while, ..
my 3 speed gets a squirt of lube oil every once in a while, in it,
that's hardly a failure..

LarDasse74

If oil was supposed to stay 'in' and it came 'out,' and the hub needs oil to function properly, then that is a failure. Not catastrophic, possibly easily fixed, but a failure nonetheless.
However, the 90 - 98% of Rohloffs that are not defective have earned the reputation that they perform flawlessly 100% of the time.

noglider 

Any day now?

Who is brave enough to buy one immediately?

Tom

tatfiend 

Per an email from AEBike, who frequently have the best price on Sturmey Archer and Shimano IGH units, they are expecting the Alfine 11 to arrive in early November according to their distributor.

Batavus

A 1000 $ hub should not leak oil, but the Rohloff hub can run without any oil whatsoever. Even if you drain it, about 5 ml clings to all internal parts. Most of the oil is just there to reduce noise and soak up wear particles which are removed during the oil change.
I am convinced it would run forever bone dry.

mconlonx

BTW, even though the Alfine/Nexus 8 is technically oil lube, there's a difference between oil lube and oil bath, which is what they are saying the Alfine 11 will be...