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quick release to nutted axle, what's involved?

Old 07-15-10, 11:20 AM
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quick release to nutted axle, what's involved?

Hi,

I have a nutted axle from an old bike that had 126mm spacing....6 speed cassette - old style.

I'd like to use it in a bike that is spaced for 130mm and currently has a quick release...set up single speed.

I've tried everything, including grinding the axle down a bit, checking the dropouts for good contact, tightening properly, but I cannot get that QR rear wheel to stay in place in the dropout. After some uphill grinding the damned thing ALWAYS loosens on the drive side.

I've tried about 6 different steel QR enclosed-cam skewers, some shimano...and others too. I've read all the problems people have with horizontal dropouts and tried the remedies....nothing.

I'm looking to swap it out for this nutted axle and was wondering if it's any tougher than wheel hub maintenance, which I have the tools for and have done.

Can the cones and locknuts from the QR wheel be used provided the nutted axle has the same threading? I basically just wanted to use the axle itself and the nuts.

thanks,
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Old 07-15-10, 11:29 AM
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Grinding the axle?

I'm a little confused by what exactly you want you say you want use a 126 nutted wheel in place of a 130 QR wheel but you can't keep the QR wheel in place?

QR axle nuts for dropout usually have knurls to help them remain in place if you ground those off you will never get the QR tight enough to hold the axle in place. Also inserting a 126 into a 130mm spaced frame already puts you behind the 8 ball since you have to really screw the QR nut into the frame a long time to compress the frame before you ever to a point where locking the wing makes a nice difference. I would use a 130mm wheel.

How about some pictures.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:35 AM
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Let me be more clear:

The bike is 130mm spacing, QR wheel, brand new skewer - not ground on the skewer acorn or the lever nut. I grouded the hub axle to make sure it doesn't protrude past the frame dropout and hinder clamping force of teh QR -- very commonly done when wheel slippage crops up.

See this picture:

I am tired of getting slippage from the QR and am perfectly ok with the idea of just swapping the QR to a nutted axle. I have an old nutted axle (shimano threading size I think) and wish to disassemble my current wheel, keep the cones and cups, and just install the hub parts onto the nutted axle. That way I can use a 15mm wrench to torque nuts onto the rear wheel to prevent slippage.

I've used a nutted wheel on this bike before (set up fixed gear for a while) and it never slipped, so I am reasonably certain a nutted axle will solve the problem.

Hopefully that makes better sense

I basically didn't know if I had to be careful of how the hub is centered on the nutted axle, and wanted to prevent pit falls and stupid errors.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:47 AM
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The trick to switching from a QR axle to a nutted hub is finding an axle set that has the thread pitch to match your cones.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:48 AM
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Did you remove the QR springs that keeps the QR centered on the axle? I've done this also (130mm axle in a 126mm frame, no grinding) but you have to remove the spring so that the QR isn't hindered by it.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:50 AM
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No, they're still on there. Does that influence the clamping of the QR?
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Old 07-15-10, 11:51 AM
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Yes
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Old 07-15-10, 11:53 AM
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The trick to switching from a QR axle to a nutted hub is finding an axle set that has the thread pitch to match your cones.
Is most Shimano stuff the 1mm pitch? The bike with the QR currently is a shimano tiagara hub, the one with the donor nutted axle I know has a shimano hub with the extremely old 6 speed cassette. Is this the same pitch?
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Old 07-15-10, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TurbineBlade


Is most Shimano stuff the 1mm pitch? The bike with the QR currently is a shimano tiagara hub, the one with the donor nutted axle I know has a shimano hub with the extremely old 6 speed cassette. Is this the same pitch?
Probably the same. Take a nut from the solid axle and see how it threads onto the QR axle -- assuming that the threads on the QR axle are ok. If you've been grinding on the axle, you might want to touch up the threads with a file. If I understand correctly, the solid axle will be about 4 mm short, but that's only 2mm/side so it might be ok.
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Old 07-16-10, 02:05 AM
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Or maybe

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Old 07-16-10, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Or maybe

I believe these skewers are only intended to inhibit wheel theft, not provide extra clamping force. In fact, I don't think they will develop anywhere near the clamping force a good interior cam qr skewer will.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
I believe these skewers are only intended to inhibit wheel theft, not provide extra clamping force. In fact, I don't think they will develop anywhere near the clamping force a good interior cam qr skewer will.
Correct.

If you want massive clamping force, check out the DT Swiss skewers. The OP has several problems if he's pulling wheels

1) Messed up dropout surfaces
2) Axle STILL too long
3) Not closing QR with proper force
4) Using ****ty skewers.
7) Dropouts seriously misaligne/rear triangle bent.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by canopus
Did you remove the QR springs that keeps the QR centered on the axle? I've done this also (130mm axle in a 126mm frame, no grinding) but you have to remove the spring so that the QR isn't hindered by it.
This is 100% wrong. The QR springs when properly used do not inhibit torque because they do not get clamped between the dropout and the surface of the nut.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by canopus
Yes
No, actually it doesn't unless you're using them incorrectly.
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Old 07-16-10, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
This is 100% wrong. The QR springs when properly used do not inhibit torque because they do not get clamped between the dropout and the surface of the nut
On something normal correct. But this isn't normal, see below. Maybe I should have qualified it with "In this instance".

Originally Posted by operator
No, actually it doesn't unless you're using them incorrectly.
Yes they do interfere if the axle looks like the photo that was posted. With axle all the way out to the outside of the frame there is no where for the spring to be compressed and they DO interfere with the clamping of the QR.

Now if it was a regular 130mm axle and QR with springs on a regular 130mm frame THEN you would be correct, but this isn't one of those times.
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Old 07-16-10, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by canopus
Yes they do interfere if the axle looks like the photo that was posted. With axle all the way out to the outside of the frame there is no where for the spring to be compressed and they DO interfere with the clamping of the QR.

Now if it was a regular 130mm axle and QR with springs on a regular 130mm frame THEN you would be correct, but this isn't one of those times.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the situation you describe the springs make NO difference. If there's axle protrusion, clearly that is causing the wheel to move forward because the wheel is not secure. The springs will not make it any worse or better.
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Old 07-16-10, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the situation you describe the springs make NO difference. If there's axle protrusion, clearly that is causing the wheel to move forward because the wheel is not secure. The springs will not make it any worse or better.
I'm sorry your spatially challenged. But because I have had this same problem, I do know what I am talking about. You can have an axle that IS to long that doesn't protrude from the frame WHERE removing the spring WILL resolve the problem (I.E. - The spring causes a problem with the clamping of the QR.)
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Old 07-16-10, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by canopus
I'm sorry your spatially challenged. But because I have had this same problem, I do know what I am talking about. You can have an axle that IS to long that doesn't protrude from the frame WHERE removing the spring WILL resolve the problem (I.E. - The spring causes a problem with the clamping of the QR.)
This only happens if you install the springs incorrectly. You keep talking to me as if we don't build an sell bikes worth more than your car on a regular basis.
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Old 07-16-10, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
This only happens if you install the springs incorrectly. You keep talking to me as if we don't build an sell bikes worth more than your car on a regular basis.
Wrong on the spring installation. And selling bikes really is different from fixing them. You keep talking to me like your important or something...
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Old 07-16-10, 09:27 AM
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I replaced a QR axle with a solid axle on a recent build. It was for a stingray style bike with sissy bars that needed to bolt onto the axle.
You need to match the axle diameter and the threading. I'm not sure an axle off for 126mm spacing will be wide enough since they do have to extend far enough to fit the nuts.
I had a problem with horizontal drops and wheel movement on a couple bikes. If I remember correctly I used titanium skewers to solve it in one case and hex-end (non lever) to solve it in another.
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