Ceramic Bearings
 

Does anyone else out there have PERSONAL experience with ceramic bearings? Not looking for a dispute over relative merits, etc., only how you have fared with them in hubs, BB's, RD guide pulleys.

Also not looking for testimony from 'experts in the field' who have not run them on their OWN bikes. I have had good experince with them, and am interested to see what YOUR experience has been.

A BB that costs 4x over the standard steel bearing version that lasts half as long. Your call. If you're not independently wealthy or sponsored, riding ceramic is a waste of $'s. Save them for something that actually matters, like Di2 for example.

I have an extra tensioner positioned low above the ground, running with a pulley wheel intended for a recumbent, that came with well sealed steel bearings. After about a year of riding the bearings would rust through and seize. I solved the problem by going with ceramic bearings.

Engineering-wise those bearings are fantastic, just a marvel. You are astounded when you rotate them. Their potential negative might be the catastrophic failure mode. In my application they do not carry much load, so I cannot tell about that.

The cost difference is of little issue after you have changed the seized bearings for the third time, each time engaging in a tedious dismantling and reassembling of the setup.

I have them in my wheels, EA90SLX's and in my BB. With the slightest touch the crank spins like the wheels...forever.
Just over 2k on them so far and still flawless. Bottom line is, the more the bike excites me the more I ride it.
Better? Who cares as long as you like the what they do for you.

Greg

The last line sums it up. Other than that they add nothing of value except to the vendor.
I tried a set on my Phil BB and they did not last. They seemed to spin forever when the chain was off, but that's not the way you ride a bike.
You spin the cranks at 60 to 100 rpm and your wheels are turning at about 335 rpm at 30mph. Good quality bronze bushings would be ok for our usage.

davidad: whose ceramics did you put on your Phil BB? What grade were they? I had a 6903 with GRADE 5 balls that seemed to get loose in a BB, so switched to one with Grade 3, and so far, it has held up much better.

"A BB that costs 4x over the standard steel bearing version that lasts half as long. Your call. If you're not independently wealthy or sponsored, riding ceramic is a waste of $'s. Save them for something that actually matters, like Di2 for example."

While you are entitled to your opinion, this does not follow what I asked in my Original Post. Do you have PERSONAL experience? What was it?

Bearing get better and more precise as the ABEC number gets higher so you downgraded when you changed yous from 5 to 3.

Hillrider: You may be right about the ABEC numbering system. I just checked Enduro's site, and they show what I was calling ABEC3 as a "ZERO" bearing. What I was actually referring to is the ball grade: Grade 5 are 5/1000000"from being perfectly spherical. Grade 3 are 3/1000000" from it. The 'ZERO' bearing is then almost twice as smooth.

Right, loose ball bearings get better and more precise as the Grade number goes down. They are not the same as ABEC numbers.

When I built up my Vamoots in June, I purchased the Campy Chorus 11 groupset. The Record was 50% ($550) more. After doing some reading, I read that some were suggesting that the Super Record crankset be substituted as it due to the CULT bearing system. I ended up doing this, and also getting CULT hub bearings for my Campy EURUS wheels. Here is an interesting article/newsletter (see page 5)
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi...0901_de_en.pdf
They are claiming better durability than standard bearings with their Cronitect steel cups and races. Who knows if this is true, but it appears to be something different. As to decreased rolling resistance, even if present, would have little or no effect for most of us. As another poster mentioned, it makes you feel good. I had been planning on doing a Record groupset, but feel that my hybrid, which cost the same after selling my new Chorus crankset, is technically more interesting to me. Also, as I am 62 YO, this titanium build will be the last one I plan on doing, so I wanted it to be a little unique and interesting with out going way out there.

These. http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit2065 Like I said above comventional bearings are more then we need. There is no advantage, other than bragging rights, to ceramics. They were designed for very high rpm and very high heat and poor lubrication.

temoore: Interesting article. I use Enduro Hybrid Ceramics, and they have their own method of kryogenically treating races that they claim makes them more wear resistant, since ceramic balls are much harder than steel.

Have you experienced any difference with your EURUS wheels, as oposed to other wheels you've used?

I have had the Eurus for a year before I swapped out the bearings. Previously I had mid level Kryseriums. With the Mavics, my composite Giant would occasionally have bad oscillations on high speed descents (grabbing the top tube with knees helped). With the Eurus, no more problems. They are great wheels. Can be purchased from Ribble on line for about $700. I have the 2 way and usually run them tubeless.

Not sure how you figure they will only last half as long, but whatever.

I have ceramic bearings for my Campy BB, Derailleur Pulleys, and Zipp Hubs (Enduro Ceramics, not Zipps). Before I got any ceramic stuff I was running plain old steel bearings. So, do the wheels roll faster; Yes. Do the cranks spin easier; Yes. Do the derailleur pulleys spin faster; not really. Is it worth upgrading to ceramic bearings; yes, if you can afford it. Well, maybe the for the derailleur(and they are Super Record pulleys), but for the wheels and cranks they were. I will say that in my experience (what I've tried and seen brought into the shop) ceramics are really only beneficial (minus weight reduction) in areas that see a high number of RPMs. As for longevity, just read ANY of the science behind the product and the all tell how the wear out for the bearings is longer with ceramics; people who tell you otherwise are pissed they can't afford them.

If you can afford them, get them in high spinning areas or were you just want to drop weight.

Mike

Nothing on a bike spins fast in industrial terms. An electric motor at 1800 or 3600 rpm is rotating relatively fast. A bike wheel at 385 rpm (30 mph) is not rotating fast, a crank at 100 rpm is even less so.

Can you quantify how much weight these bearing actually saved?

They saved more than there steel counterparts! And yes your right, the speed at which something spins on a bike is far less than that of something in an 'industrial' setting. But the OP did not ask for someones opinion on what they thought of something in an 'industrial' setting, he asked for opinions about a 'bike' setting, and I know, based on personal experience, that a ceramic upgrade to a headset is not worth the money unless you want greater weight savings. And again, ceramics weigh less than there steel counter parts, how much less? Not, sure don't remember the exact number and I'm not going to rip my bike apart for you, some clown on the internet. I also don't know if the OP is a weight weenie or not! If he is, he may be looking for that extra weight savings anywhere he can get it!!

Mike

Slowrollin': Thanks for your input. I would think the smoother bearings would offer a good benefit to those of us slow rollers tho. I kind of compare it to the difference between knobbies and 'slicks' for MTB wheels. Knobbies will get you there, but 'slicks' will do it easier. The smoother polishing that is possible on Si3N4 makes these hard suckers roll easier, which seems to me would help more at slow speeds, since the increase in wind resistance will take more of your power output as speed increases. To me, that means on climbs, more of my output can go into moving the bike forward, instead of overcoming parasitic resistance. GRANTED we may only be talking 3, 4, or 5%, but I still would rather be putting that amount into moveing the bike.:thumb:

You're right; even if it is only 3%, it is still 3% more than what you had before. Glad I could be of help.

Mike

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Threads on ceramic bearings always seem to degenerate into two opposing camps;

1. The cynics who point out the weight savings are miniscule, the rolling resistance improvement so small as to require fine instruments to measure and the cost excessive. We haven't bought them because we do value objective measurements by "experts".

2. The true believers who insist these bearings are a huge improvement over their older steel ones, their riding experience is so much better and easier and the cost is well worth every penny. "Seeing is believing; If I hadn't believed it I wouldn't have seen it."

2_i and sdean911: I did not mean to ignore your input. Thanks for it, and sharing some positive in an area that seems to generate negative responses. I have seen enough benefit by using ceramics to continue with them. I am gratified to know I am not alone in my good fortune. Smooth roads, and tailwinds.:)

HillRider: Thanks for your input, although you did not say if you have PERSONAL experience with ceramics. I would be interested to hear what your experience has been.

Sorry if I seem too strident in my posts and I don't mean to insult your choices. Smooth roads and tailwinds indeed.

No, I don't have any personal experience with ceramic bearings, mostly because I have read the quantitative studies of others and I have concluded they don't have sufficient benefits to justify the cost. As always, it's your choice and I hope they meet your expectations.

I have no experiance with ceramics in cycling aplications. HOWEVER I do own and rebiuld many fishing rods with them. they have negligible wieght on them but the increase casting distance considerably. I also have never had to replace them in any reel I have rebiult. so they must be lasting. Also i can actualy tell whether a reel has them in it by simple turning the handle. I also replace the pawl with a ceramic one as well. and in closing,the amount and type of oil orgrease used makes a big differance too.

Phydiox: Thanks for the input. +1 on the choice of lube. I use Enduro's 'string' grease, which is formulated to stick to the smooth surface of ceramic balls.