With any pedal retention system (clips/straps, clipless cleats, straps only, duct tape [remember Breaking Away?], direct surgical connection to the crank arms [okay, I made that one up]), if you're "pulling" and "pushing", you're not taking full advantage of it. The real advantage of pedal retention is that you turn circles with your feet. It takes a while to get into this mindset, to mentally discipline yourself into thinking of your movement as circular rather than up and down, but once you do, the body will follow the mind, it will become totally natural, and your pedaling will be most efficient.

Hey, can I semi-hijack this thread (staying on-topic, honest)? I've got a pair of old Shimano PD-7401 pedals with matching cleats. These are among the first clipless pedals, using the original LOOK design; Shimano made them under some kinda license agreement from LOOK (they actually say "LOOK PATENT" on them). We're talking before the macarena, but after disco sucked (late '80s). I was wondering - SPD succeeded this design, and seemed to be the dominant force in clipless for many years. But now I see there's a Shimano PD "road" pedal design, and it looks suspiciously similar to my old LOOK-alike PDs. Is this latest incarnation the same as what I rode back in the day?

I started riding with foot retention when I started riding fixed about 5 years ago, but now I ride with foot retention on all my bikes. I ride with the straps loose on my bike for getting around town and if anything happens it's a natural reaction for me to pull my foot out of the clips before I fall. I mainly like them for the rain and for climbing hills, but I couldn't imagine ever owning a bike without foot retention again.

For what it's worth, before clipless was invented, I had shoes with slotted cleats but I wore them very rarely. Being strapped in was too scary for me. I found a compromise where I would tighten only my left strap so I could remove my right foot when I needed, including emergencies. The problem was that I couldn't pull up or back very hard, because my right foot would come out. As a result, I pedaled with unequal pressure.

Clipless is wonderful. It's actually easier to get in and out than toe clips. And pedaling efficiency is greater. In my observation, adding toe clips to pedals allowed me to shift up one gear, maintain my cadence and go that much faster. I guess I'm talking about 15%, because I think that's how far apart my gears are. 15% sounds a bit unrealistic, but it feels that way. And changing from toe clips to clipless cleats gave me another boost of the same size!

It's actually the other way around -- Look made them for Shimano. Check them closely and you'll find a "MADE IN FRANCE" on them as well.

Look refused to license their design and actually built clipless pedals for both Shimano and Campagnolo until those companies came out with their own clipless designs.

So does that mean that the current Shimano "road" design is _not_ the same? Are they cross-compatible? That is, could I get new PD cleats for these old Look-made pedals?

IIRC, the Look / old-PD cleats had no float; do the current "road" cleats/pedals have any float?

What are PD?

Also, Shimano came out with SPD-SL which is closer in design to LOOK than to their own SPD design. Why did they do this? SPD is really good, because the cleat can be recessed in the sole. What is the advantage to a giant cleat like LOOK or SPD-SL?

PD was Shimano's nomenclature for the original LOOK pedal/cleat with the Shimano label on it.

The original Look-built Shimano pedals use standard Look cleats. You can use the red "ARC" cleats to get some float if you need it.

As said already, 'toe clips' make sure your feet stay with the pedal. It sounds way scarier than it really is. My first road bike had Shimano 600 pedals and straps. Your foot was welded to the pedal. Now I use a Shimano SPD system. A simple lift and twist and the foot is off the pedal. Unfortunately, this requires a specific shoe that can accept the cleat. But, fortunately, there is a wide selection of shoes that accept cleats. Most common are MTB shoes that look like a hiking shoe.

Thanks for that info; indeed the cleats I used with those PD-7401s were red, and I just now slapped one on a compatible shoe, and indeed, it floats in the pedal. Been a while since I've used these components, so the refresher is helpful. And dang, sorry about the hijack....

Good thread.

Cheap plastic pedals with clips/straps came with my bike. I was having some difficulty getting in them, partly because they are new and came with the strap wrapped tightly around the clip and they were flat. So for now took off the straps. Also my shoes suck. Adidas fat toe type shoes (although converse) and just too wide. Planning on picking up some of those old school reebok running shoes that have a narrower toe and then will put the straps back on.

Never knew that you guys actually tighten and loosen. Couldn't imagine being locked into pedals and having to reach down to get out. I guess if you're a racer and know you will have no need to stop, but in the city streets, no way. Those half toe clips look pretty cool too.

Once you get trackstands down, you won't have to loosen straps 'til you get to your destination. I loosen 'em up for a couple of REALLY long lights 'round here, though. 4th plain and Main has what feels like a 10 minute cycle!

I usually wear running shoes, and in these you have to yank the strap uncomfortably tight before getting out of the pedal is a problem. I usually don't tighten my straps anyway, in which state my shoe just slips out and gets in with a couple of wiggles. For rides longer than ten minutes or so I'll tighten the straps fairly firm, and getting out of them is still easy once you know what it takes - just point your hell down and twist your foot a bit while standing on it. I never have to loosen my (cheap nylon) straps by hand, either - I can just loosen them by twisting my feet.

I do all my riding around town in fairly heavy traffic, and there's no way I'd feel half as safe without toe clips. Being secured to the bike is a big plus when you can disengage with only a minor effort. The biggest downside of toe clips is the entry technique you have to master... it's a fiddly one.

I don't think 15% is a conservative figure for the difference - without foot retention you have to tell your muscles to keep your feet on the pedal, as well as worry about smooth power delivery. The latter will suffer when you have to do the former, and we know that power delivery that isn't smooth is inefficient power delivery.

There was a camp who felt that given the hours road riders spent on the bike, that the concentrated load on the sole from the small SPD cleat could cause potential soreness and fatigue compared with the large LOOK style's far greater area... the stiffness of the soles in road cycling shoes somehow notwithstanding.

Please share the studies you have found. I'd like to see how big the improvement has been measured to be. Up to a few years ago I did several searches for this sort of info, without any real results. But I'm still curious.