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Relentless Rear Wheel troubles

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Relentless Rear Wheel troubles

Old 08-18-10, 11:27 AM
  #1  
morry32
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Relentless Rear Wheel troubles

1983 Raleigh Marathon-

My commuter in the last 18 months has had the following rear wheel issues- 10+ broken spokes- one broken Spindle- I replaced one entire wheel (rim, spokes, hub, freewheel) when it broke numerous spokes and eventually broke the spindle. I replaced that one with a new cheap 27in wheel from the LBS, everything was new on it and it was built locally but cost only about $85. I added a large rear rack at the same time, and lived carefree for a few months before the problems began on this wheel as well, broken spokes usually on the drive-train side. I believed this might have been caused by my aggressive riding but everyone told me that was impossible and then i blamed the rack as aiding the problem and maybe the brakes were not straight and were contacting improperly loosen one side until a spoke would break?

To put it all to rest I removed the rack, replaced the brakes, and went back to riding this summer with a hot bag on my back and I replaced the wheel with a good upgrade, old Campy Hub and Rigida rims all new spokes- I have now broken my second spoke in three weeks. No LBS has been able to give me a good explanation but I am beginning to believe my frame is somehow causing some lateral stress on the rear wheel but the stays looks "right" anyone have any suggestions or comments on what to do short of buying a new frame which is exactly what i am considering.


My weight isn't an issue, I weigh 175-190 most days with no more than 20 pounds on my back- riding about 60-80 miles a week under that load
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Old 08-18-10, 12:10 PM
  #2  
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What are the wheels built with? Pick-Up sticks?

Who is building them? What brand/type of spokes? What size spokes? What cross? Tension meter used?

I can see frame problems causing axle problems but not spoke breakage. Have you had the frame alignment checked? dropout alignment? instead of just eye-balling it.
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Old 08-18-10, 12:13 PM
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The problem with your old raleight and breaking spindles is because the rear end of the bike is not straight. U need to take the bike to the shop so they get the rear end and the frame straight. Happens that the dropouts aren't parallel to each other and when u ride the spindle or rear wheel axle simply gives up and brakes. Thats the reason u have oversize hubs now. A normal hub axle bends pretty easy to tell you the truth.

They LBS actually looked at the stays/dropouts? If they didnt check the alignment or do not have the tools to do it, is better for you get another shop.
Once the rear end is straight the guys need to check the alignment of the frame. With the years some frames tend to warp more than other ones, that's all. Nature of the beast.
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Old 08-18-10, 12:15 PM
  #4  
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Broken spokes = poor tensioning

You are pushing the weight...a little...

What you need are double-wall rims with single or double eyelets somewhere in the high 400s to low 500s grams-wise. Make sure the spokes have 6.1mm / 6.2mm elbows - pretty much guaranteed with Wheelsmith, Phil, DT-Swiss spokes. CN's are typically 6.2mm but will vary between 6.1mm and 6.3mm.

An example rim would be a Mavic A719...

When built insist to the builders that the front tension be up around 103 kgf and the rear drive 110 kgf. Straight 14g is okay, but double-butted 14/15/14 would be nice. Don't let them poo-poo the tension - insist!!!

You can also go with single-butted 13g/14g to provide some beef at the elbows.

=8-)

This all assumes that your definition of a left or right turn refers to the use of the steering column with a little lean...cause I've run into folks for whom a turn is literally a rear sideways skid.
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Old 08-18-10, 12:16 PM
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As already noted...check dropout alignment before you even put another wheel in there...

=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 08-18-10, 12:31 PM
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thanks- i've been figuring this might be the case but any idea what the charge might be in a situation like this? How do you check the alignment properly? What tools are needed and is there a good hard fast rule on the subject to keep considering?

I've been needing an excuse to pick up another bike for a while and I just got a new job I start in a week and am moving within a mile of the location so I won't be as dependent on the bike for a while meaning I can save a little and get some nicer old steel.
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Old 08-18-10, 12:35 PM
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It's a five to 10 minute job at your LBS. Tools look like T-Handles with cups on the ends. Reasonable charge would be 8.00 to 12.00 bucks. Anything more - find another LBS.

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

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3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 08-18-10, 12:49 PM
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wheel tensioning/truing. is not a one time thing, you have to do maintainence.
If you are not doing the work yourself , you have to take the bike in and have it done.

Or get some fiber reinforced nylon Composite molded Tough Wheels.
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Old 08-18-10, 01:04 PM
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How much money have you spent on wheels for this old ass bike?? And how much are you gonna spend until you figure it out? I'd sell the warped frame and I'd buy a new frame, I think youre likely to find a similar bike for $250 or less
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Old 08-18-10, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
wheel tensioning/truing. is not a one time thing, you have to do maintainence.
If you are not doing the work yourself , you have to take the bike in and have it done.

Or get some fiber reinforced nylon Composite molded Tough Wheels.
I'm aware of that but they weren't out of true enough to warrant re-truing them before the spoke broke.
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Old 08-18-10, 02:59 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by morry32 View Post
I'm aware of that but they weren't out of true enough to warrant re-truing them before the spoke broke.
I'm not going to spend anymore money on it- I took it in and they said it is out of alignment by 15mm and that they can't do that themselves and they would have to send it to a frame builder in the area and total cost would range from $30-50. Now that I know what is going on with it I am pissed at the LBS and will be contacting the owner (who wasn't there) and letting him know that in 20 minutes on BF.net five people told me what was probably wrong while his staff just tried to sell me new wheels over and over again. Believe it or not the guy is pretty cool and I look forward to hearing his reply.
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Old 08-18-10, 08:36 PM
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15 mms? thats a LOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTT... wow! im impressed, what impress me even more is that the suckers at the lbs do not have the tools neither know how to fix it OLD STYLE???? Dude do not go to that place again! and learn to do the stuff yourself, jezz what a shame!.
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Old 08-26-10, 03:13 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
15 mms? thats a LOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTT... wow! im impressed, what impress me even more is that the suckers at the lbs do not have the tools neither know how to fix it OLD STYLE???? Dude do not go to that place again! and learn to do the stuff yourself, jezz what a shame!.
Yeah I've made some new connections and working some other angles but that frame looks to be nearly destroyed- It makes me really sad i'd personally put close to 9,000 miles on that frame and it will certainly be missed but on to new STEEL!
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