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Forester - Effective Cycling - What lube technique????

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Forester - Effective Cycling - What lube technique????

Old 08-26-10, 02:56 PM
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hiero
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Forester - Effective Cycling - What lube technique????

Ok, folks, my copy of Effective Cycling is in storage somewhere. Can't get to it. However, Forester mentioned an oiling technique that I now need to use, and I can't remember the formula. He thinned 90 weight oil with a highly volatile thinner, so that it was easy to apply, but the thinner would evaporate, leaving the 90 weight for better surface bearing coverage.

What thinner did he recommend? Gasoline? Kerosene? MEK? Mineral spirits? I can't remember, and don't see the point in just mixing something in that will just reduce the oil weight.

In case you're wondering here's the situation. I'm putting my old Cannondale Buxxer (x=g, censor won't pass that word) back into service. The bearings need grease, but I can't figure out how to get the hubs off. So I drill a hole in the hub and squirt oil in. It spreads to the bearings, and I'm back in business.
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Old 08-26-10, 03:28 PM
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If your gonna through that trouble why don't you tap in a zerk grease fitting and use a grease gun. Better than oil, it seals the hole and is reusable.

Apply grease to the tap so that the shavings stick to the tap and minimize the risk of them getting into the hub.
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Old 08-26-10, 04:30 PM
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Can't figure out how to disassemble a hub? Never seen anything that couldn't be disassembled.
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Old 08-26-10, 04:58 PM
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[QUOTE=hiero;11360191]What thinner did he recommend? Gasoline? Kerosene? MEK? Mineral spirits? I can't remember, and don't see the point in just mixing something in that will just reduce the oil weight. QUOTE]

Not from him but found on the Longs Cycle web site - use mineral spirits/paint thinner. Don't EVER use gasoline for an application like this.
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Old 08-26-10, 07:22 PM
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In Forester's 6th edition, page 110, he recommends SAE 90wt gear oil thinned with "white gas" which is Coleman fuel or similar fuel intended for camping stoves and lanterns.

However, I would NEVER use white gas as a solvent as it has the same flammability and flash point as automobile gasoline and is far too hazardous. Forester says you won't use enough of the mix to make the gas hazardous. I don't buy that. It's too volatile and the lube container isn't that reliable at controlling the vapors.

If I were going to oil lube hubs I'd thin my oil of choice with OMS (odorless mineral spirits). It an excellent solvent, will evaporate in a reasonable time and is far less hazardous than gasoline in any form.
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Old 08-27-10, 12:04 AM
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If you describe the hubs in detail or post a picture here, someone will definitely know how to overhaul or replace the bearings. Don't go drilling into your hubs when there's an easier and more effective way to deal with the problem.
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Old 08-27-10, 12:07 AM
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I just use 10/30 semi synthetic and call it a day.

I would not tap your hubs unless you could take them apart to make sure no shavings have gotten into the bearings and can't imagine what kind of hubs you have.
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Old 08-27-10, 01:23 AM
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It is this correct?



Or is like this one?


Cannondale Bugger by sirob10, on Flickr
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Old 08-29-10, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
It is this correct?


It is indeed. The hitch is slightly different on mine, but I can't see that has any relevance to the hub fastening! My guess is that they were designed to come off when the exterior nut is removed, but the interior race has frozen onto the axle over the years. But I don't want to go banging around, if someone has an idea.

Thanks for posting the pic.
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Old 08-29-10, 03:41 PM
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For cup and cone bearings I'm going to reinforce Sixty Fiver's post above.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO DRILL AND TAP YOUR HUBS WITHOUT TAKING THEM APART TO CLEAN OUT THE CHIPS ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Is that a strong enough suggestion for you? You WILL get some chips from the drilling and thread cutting into the hub and they WILL flow to the bearing on a wave of the oil you use. So if you have to take the hubs apart anyway to allow this treatment then you're going to learn as you go, you can grease them in a more normal manner and they will then be good for a couple of years before you want to take them apart for cleaning and re-greasing. Which of course you'll remember how from the last (this) time.

Besides oiling must be done far more frequently than greasing and the oil WILL run out of the hub and down your spokes and onto the rim. All in all figure out how to do it right.

The only case where oiling the wheel bearings was debatably a good idea is on the serious track or special section racing bikes where you're looking for that last tenth of a percent advantage. In those cases using a thicker oil instead of grease would give you that last tenth from the lower viscous bearing drag. But in those cases you don't mind the time or have the factory sponsored job boy that will clean off the old oil spludge from the hub shield areas and spokes on a daily basis.
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Old 08-30-10, 12:09 PM
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Well, thank you for that emphatic advice. I seem to recall teaching that lesson to other folks, myself, about 30 years ago, give or take a few.

The only case where oiling the wheel bearings was debatably a good idea is on the serious track or special section racing bikes
Btw, Forrester doesn't agree with you about oiling - he liked it for commuting bikes, for the very fact that it didn't stay in - supposed to flush out the dirt, as I recall.

I do appreciate the answers.

Now, tho, what we have is a situation where I can't get the hubs off, and how they are supposed to come off is not obvious. The race is not threaded, I'm fairly certain of that. If they are a press fit, then removal would require some sort of puller, and what sort is also not obvious. I'm inclined to guess that the inner races have rusted or corroded onto the axle, and that the hubs were supposed to lift off easily once the outboard nut was removed. I'd certainly want to confirm that before I went banging around on the hub. There might be some technique, where you take the whole axle assembly off in order to remove the hubs, but I don't think that is the case. Regardless, this is a 30+ year old trailer that had already seen significant service when I no longer had a need for it, and retired it to lawn cart duty. Now I have a dog who is aging, and in order to accompany me on a ride to run the young dog, I need the cart to carry her when her rhuematic hips start acting up.

As for the bearings, if they aren't threaded, as I mentioned earlier, then they must be "sealed" bearings. Can't get em apart to find out yet, won't know until I can find out how to get them off. I'll probably have to replace them at that time, whether I oil them now, or not. I can't imagine close to 20 years of neglect has done them much good - but they aren't grinding, so who knows?

I had posted another thread to get help getting these things off, but nobody answered that one, and if this post gets that answer, well, all the better.

Best Regards;
Hiero

Last edited by hiero; 08-30-10 at 12:16 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 08-30-10, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hiero View Post
It is indeed. The hitch is slightly different on mine, but I can't see that has any relevance to the hub fastening! My guess is that they were designed to come off when the exterior nut is removed, but the interior race has frozen onto the axle over the years. But I don't want to go banging around, if someone has an idea.

Thanks for posting the pic.
Actually, it is exactly the same model. Mine just still has the rubber hitch part. I had thought the aluminum tubing terminated inside the hitch as two tubes, but it is a single tube curved inside the hitch - that must provide better lateral stability to the hitch. They were a very good trailer.
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Old 08-30-10, 12:26 PM
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Can you take some close up pictures of the hubs? Say 4 or 5 pictures, two from either side, one pretty dead-on at the end and another from about a 45' angle to the hub? so we can see exactly how they are connected to the frame and hub axle? It may be that the axles need to stay on the frame and you pull the wheel off like a car wheel. Or maybe it unbolts from the rear. I haven't seen one up close so pictures help a lot.

I wouldn't recommend the oil in the hubs (without a bath like environment, i.e. good seals, they can dry out to quickly and disintegrate) and I don't like drilling without being able to clean out the chips but it is possible if you go slowly and use a couple of different techniques to capture the chips while your creating them (I have done this before). but first lets see if we can get them off before applying last chance techniques.

Post them pictures and lets see....
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Old 08-30-10, 03:24 PM
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I think that trailer hubs use the same blind axle systems as you'll find on wheelchairs. You may want to see if you can find some information on how to service those and likely there will be some clues as to how to take your hubs apart. At least then if you have to force something you'll know that it's the right sort of force in the right place....

On oiling... Don't take me wrong. I agree with Forrester that oiling the wheel bearings is just fine. But it's that constant "oil change" process of you putting it into the center and the hub puking it out the shields that I object to. It's this MESS that will occur on a regular basis that needs to be cleaned up before it creates a slimey tarry and grungy mess when mixed with road dust that makes me suggest that you're far better off with greasing the bearings. Grease being polite enough to stay where you put it instead of running out and covering the entire hub and spokes over time with a sticky mess.
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Old 08-30-10, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hiero View Post

I'm inclined to guess that the inner races have rusted or corroded onto the axle, and that the hubs were supposed to lift off easily once the outboard nut was removed. ....
Yes the inner race was a slip fit on the axle kept in place by the end nut. You're probably right that it's rusted in place. Probably the hubs were mounted dry, allowiny water to wick in and do it's magic for the last 20 years. Remove the nut, and give it a long soak in liquid wrench before trying to pound the hub off. Note that there's a good chance that you'll pull the outer bearing off with the hub, but the inner may stay on the axle.
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Old 08-31-10, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
I think that trailer hubs use the same blind axle systems as you'll find on wheelchairs. You may want to see if you can find some information on how to service those and likely there will be some clues as to how to take your hubs apart. At least then if you have to force something you'll know that it's the right sort of force in the right place....

On oiling... Don't take me wrong. I agree with Forrester that oiling the wheel bearings is just fine. But it's that constant "oil change" process of you putting it into the center and the hub puking it out the shields that I object to. It's this MESS that will occur on a regular basis that needs to be cleaned up before it creates a slimey tarry and grungy mess when mixed with road dust that makes me suggest that you're far better off with greasing the bearings. Grease being polite enough to stay where you put it instead of running out and covering the entire hub and spokes over time with a sticky mess.


yup - oil can make a mess!

I think FBinNY has it right on the hub construct. I'm not in a hurry, I'll see if I can get any decent pics - problem is I don't have a camera that likes to do close ups.

TY.
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Old 08-31-10, 06:32 PM
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I would not squirt in the hub, it will never get to the bearings. I think those bearings are cartridge bearings and they are sloppily pressed in and maybe easily removed. You pull the axle and then put something in there to pull the bearings out, possibly an automotive dent puller, carefully not denting the inside of the cartridge. However, you may be able to spray a lube in by laying the trailer on it's side and letting it soak in. Valvoline makes a spray synthetic oil that would work well for that application. It's somewhat sticky and that's why I think it's a great lube for that application.
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Old 09-01-10, 12:19 PM
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Lubing trailer hubs: Solved

Drum roll - FBinNY gets the prize.

The bearings are some sort of sealed or cartridge bearings, and were originally a slip fit. I got one off, exactly as FBinNY described - with the inboard bearing staying on the axle. Since this allowed me to inject a little lube, this will have to do.

I'm satisfied, and the trailer is good for a few more years.

Thanks all, score this one SOLVED.
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