DOS

I got hit by a car today. No injury to me but cant say same for the bike. My rear wheel is toast (well rim is, not sure yet if hub is salvageable). Its a steel frame (Jamis quest), and the derailluer hangar/dropout is all one piece of steel. The hangar is bent inward almost 90degrees, and the dropout is twisted slightly and bent downward so opening for the axle is wider than it should be. There also appears to be a very slight inward bend in the seat stay on drive side. The dropouts attached to stays via lugs (one side lugged to seat stay, the other to chain stay). So is the frame toast or can a a frame builder save it for less than what a new frame of comparable value would run me?

(If I had the technology, I'd include a picture, alas, that is beyond me).

blamp28

A steel frame can usually be repaired with the damage you described. The question, and you hit on it, is will it be worth it? You will need to check with a local frame builder to be sure. The frame will need at least a partial repaint in addition to the frame repairs. If you are capable of disassembly and reassembly, you will save $100 - $150 depending on what your local bike shop charges for this. If you were not at fault in this collision, The driver should be paying for the repair or replacement.

canopus 

Is the car not picking up the tab? They should.
I would say get a new frame and hang this one on the wall. Everything can be fixed, but the question of worth, quality and safety is another issue.

DOS

I can do the assembly/disassembly. So far the driver is being cooperative and saying the right things about paying; but I am fairly sure he is thinking in terms of my taco'd wheel as I have not yet told him about frame damage. Will need to get a repair quote before I contact him.

cny-bikeman

I straightened many frames and in my opinion what you described is beyond reasonable repair. A 90 degree bend in the hanger is extreme and when the dropout is bent open like that you often cannot close it back up without distortion. Get a new frame - depending on the laws in your state the driver's insurance will likely pay for the damages, including parts and labor.

HillRider

I agree with cny-bikeman, the frame is damaged beyond any reasonable repair. Sure, anything can be fixed but a proper repair will require replacing too many tubes and stays to be reasonable. A Jamis replacement frame should not be too expensive and the driver's insurance should cover it.

DOS

Okay, having stripped down the frame and gotten a better look, the hanger is somwhat less than 90 degrees bent (but more than 45) -- looked worse with derailleur still attached. That said, the dropout is stretched open and, besides the inward bend of the hanger, there is a bit of twist to it too. I called LBS from which I bought bike and they basically suggested I buy a new bike from them, which I thought annoying since all my components are still good (except the wheel and maybe rear derailleur replacements for which i already own). There is an LBS in my neighborhood I am told the owner of which has reputation for being "steel frame guru" So i will be visiting them today to see what they recommend. I also noted that Jamis offeres 25% off MSRP for replacement frames when their bikes are destroyed by crash. So perhaps thats an option as well.

dstrong 

My guess is that "crash" to Jamis may not involve a car...but maybe it doesn't matter the circumstances. Please let us know what your frame guru says.

DOS

Frame guru said; "oh boy". He says he will try to bend (cost 50 bucks if it works) but is not optimistic. If bend doesn't work (and he doesn't think it will) he may be able to replace dropout, but, again, he is not optimistic about being able to find one that will work (cost about $150.00). In likely circumstance that bending or dropout replacement doesn't work, frame is toast. Will know is a few days.

As for Jamis replacement, much as buying wheel parts to build wheels oneself usually costs more than retail price for prebuilt wheels, replacing frame and busted wheel and derailleur may cost more than just buying a whole new bike. So, while I dont need to replace the wheel and derailluer since I own extra parts, I am not at all sure how much to claim driver owes me.

fietsbob

You may have a non derailleur bike in your future... if the rest of the frame is not bent .

or hire a frame repair consisting of putting in a whole new dropout,
and a rattle can touch-up paint application.

drivers Insurance should cover the costs... if you have a filed PD report.

himespau 

Let us know how this turns out. Having an accident report on file with the police is key to getting insurance to take care of it. From the sounds of it (you talking to the driver directly about repair costs), it sounds like that may not have been the case.

Mondoman

If there's still time, take photos of the damaged bike and frame before any repair attempts are made -- you may need them in your negotiations with the driver.

DOS

I talked with driver. He is disinclined to involve his insurance but willing to pay. I did not file a police report but lodged a complaint with the Police Department, which I hold at least partially responsible for the incident. The whole reason the accident occured is because the traffic light was out at the very busy intesection I was trying to cross. So, since we had "flashing red" light, all of us at intersection could do nothing but wait for a gap in traffic and then scoot across the intersection. The driver who hit me was looking to his left for a break in traffic, as was I. I was on the right shoulder of the road, when there was a break in traffic, I went straight, he turned right. We discovered as we drove away from the scene that not 50 yards away sitting, inexplicably, in a parking lot behind a bank -- and therefore without line of site to the dangerous intersection with broken traffic light -- was a county cop (Arlington County, VA). What the hell she was doing there besides ignoring a dangerous intersection during height of morning rush hour, I haven't a clue.

BCRider

This has all the signs of going bad and you getting stuck with the bill. You need to file a report and if possible provide names and contact info for witnesses. DO NOT LEAVE IT ANY LONGER!

If the driver does make good in the end then there's no fault to him and the report just gets filed never to be a bother again. If he sees the final amount and starts blabbering about how Wallmart bikes are fine and that he will buy one for you then the report on file will allow you to go after his insurance. So far you're dancing to his tune and not covering yourself at all.

And a flashing red all 4 ways is NOT any sort of excuse regardless of if a cop was there or not. Flashing 4 way reds just mean that the intersection is to be treated as a 4 way stop with the appropriate rules applying to it. The city isn't responsible in any manner for this accident regardless of what you may think. It's strictly between you and the motorist. There's more than enough guidance in the rules of the road to deal with a 4 way flashing red that the cop did not need to come out and baby sit even if she knew it was going on.

Back to your frame. From other threads on this forum describing accidents between cars and bikes the obvious damage has always been found to have some other secondary tweaking as well. If your bike was struck from the side and slapped to the ground and driven over or even if it was just slapped hard enough to do this damage to your rear triangle and wheel it is highly probable that your front triangle also has been twisted. This is going to add to the cost of any frame repair. Frankly I'd suggest you follow the advice to just call this frame dead and move on. Buy a new frame, new wheel and any other bits that were damaged and present him with the bill. And be prepared for him to start questioning the cost of the replacement parts. He's very likely going to try to claim that you're sticking it to him and using his good faith to upgrade to something higher end than you had because unless he is an avid cyclist himself that has mid range bikes he is going to be thinking that this will ony cost him a couple of hundred.

In the meantime call the PD and report the accident right now. They are a 24 hour a day service so do not delay.

himespau 

+1

longbeachgary

+1+1
Drivers are always willing to pay until they find out that your bike is not a Walmart special.

DannoXYZ 

What everyone said:

1. file police-report ASAP!

2. get quote from LBS for frame-replacement + parts transfer & tuning

3. get quote from LBS for comparable replacement bike.

4. give both quotes to driver, maybe negotiate with him to pay you average of the two quotes.


Personally I would go with #3 as you waste less time and effort in getting back on the road. And, you'll have all the parts left over from the 1st bike as spares.

DOS

I don't know that I'd feel right about getting a brand spanking new bike out of the deal. I mean if the guy wrecked my car, I'd only get book value. My 5 yr old Jamis I am sure had depreciated quite a bit.

DannoXYZ 

Well, it's a matter of economics. The cost to strip a bike and transfer all the parts over to a warranty frame may end up costing more than a brand-new bike.

DOS

True; but I already stripped it down and will do the rebuild myself. So the labor is all my own. So really I am looking to cover cost of frame a busted wheel. Even so frame from LBS is goingto be pricey.

DannoXYZ 

Well, your time and labour is worth something. Keep track of your hours and charge him at the rate you get paid at your job. Compare that to the shop-rate for the same job. He should be either be paying you or the shop for that labour.

doOde

dude, take it to the LBS and get a quote. insurance company doesnt care and will cut you a check if its not an insanely nutty amount, makes it easier on all parties involved.

if you want to nickel and dime it and catalog your hours thats fine. i like monkeying around too, but if i were in your shoes id just get a new ride and keep the old junk for a side project.

BCRider

Another thing is that whichever way you go after filing your police report is to get your bike portion pricing and options done pronto. That way if he balks you can go to his insurance company while the incident is still quite fresh.

To show him that you're not trying to gouge him I'd suggest you show up with prices for the following;

1. A fair price for what your bike is worth used on today's market that you would feel OK with getting if you were selling it. This will set the stage for the rest of the options and show that you are not trying to gouge him on the other options below.
2. A price for a similar quality used frame in good condition. And perhaps if you can find new frames that are on closeout sales that are similar in funtion and materials to include. Unless you are fanatical about sticking with Jamis there are typically frames to be had. Allow for shipping and some cost fudge factor on the used frame price to ensure you do not end up out of pocket on the deal as used frames are a fickle market and you should not get stuck for the extra if you can only find options that are $20 to $40 more than you expected..
3. Price for a similar rear wheel. If yours was badly worn and you want to cut him some slack on this that is your choice. Or also shop for a good suitable used replacement and show that cost. But frankly I'd say in this case that a new wheel is the best way to go.
4. A reasonable shop labour cost to swap the parts over. Just get quotes for this from a couple of shops to again show that you're not trying to gouge. Yes you are doing the work but only because his actions have forced this to occur. You would be well within reason to have a shop do it or at least be recompensed for your time at a bike shop's rate.

Sources for the prices on this stuff can come from Craig's LIst and Ebay which you can then show to the guy as assurance that you're not trying to gouge him. Once he sees prices from such sources and quotes for the labour from local shops with the shop names and phone numbers he should be able to see that you are only trying to replace what was damaged. In this case just write off the frame and don't even suggest "repairs" since the cost of a frame maker to do the work and check out the main triangle and other things will be well over what a used or closeout sale replacement would cost.

In any event you want to get these prices to the guy pronto. This isn't the sort of situation to let it stew while you ponder the cheapest but most complex way to proceed. You are entitled to a replacement frame of similar age and quality in as good a condition and replacement wheel and any other parts of a quality similar to what you had. You are also entitled to an amount for labour to have this done. Once you have the funds to allow you to do these things in a reasonable manner and reasonable time frame what you then do is up to you. Depending on how fussy you are you may end up finding a decent enough frame right away or it may take months. But you should have the money in hand for this and not string out the settlement for that long. If you score some great deals and end up with the stuff for $50 less than you originally settled for then that isn't gouging, it's just the luck of the market. If you opt to do the swap over yourself instead of having a shop do the work that again is your option and the money is going towards your time, tools that you paid for and small consumables such as cables and housings and screws that needed replacing.

Anyhow, dump all that searching for a frame builder and just give the guy the suitable and fair replacement cost list for the damaged stuff and settle the accounts up. Then go about getting back on the road in whatever manner you want. You don't want this whole thing to run out for weeks on end like it appears to be doing.

cny-bikeman

OK, lots to cover here:

I'm sorry but your frame guru does not know what he is doing. DO NOT attempt to have the dropout or hanger straightened. You need a replacement frame or bike, period.

At a 4 way stop, temporary or otherwise, the rule is you take turns according to who has the right of way - either who reached the intersection 1st or who is to the right if simultaneous. You do not shoot across at a break in traffic (how does that happen at a 4 way stop?) If you are on the shoulder and not in the traffic stream (not a good idea in high traffic) you need to make sure nobody is next to you when you start up, to avoid what happened to you. It's best to take your place between cars to establish your right of way, and CRITICAL if you are turning left.

You're not going to get a new bike from the owner or insurance company, typically. If it is totaled by insurance company you will usually receive fair market value - what the bike was worth before the accident. Do not go to Craigslist. Get a quote from a shop or shops that sell used bikes about the value of your type of bike as well as an estimate of the labor and parts required to move the OK parts to a new frame and replace damaged parts. You need an itemized estimate from a shop - NOT a mishmash of prices from ebay, craigslist, etc. In case this goes to the insurance company that is what they will require and it gives you all the info you need. I would expect a shop to charge for such an extensive estimate.

I agree with much of the previous post on how to handle this - explain the situation and that you are saving him money by doing the work yourself. Show him the estimate and either ask for the full fair market value or 1/2 labor and perhaps a small discount on the parts estimate, depending on how the figures from the estimate pan out. There will be a limit to how much the driver will pay to avoid an insurance claim. Just as with ANY settlement what you do after receiving the compensation due you is your business.

I am telling you this as a 20 year professional in the bike business, a bicycle safety/skills trainer and as a person who has gone through this process more than once myself.

slowandsteady

Everything you have done/not done to this point is a recipe for getting screwed.....

Please listen to the other posters.