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Anti-seize Compounds

Old 11-18-10, 11:52 AM
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3alarmer
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Anti-seize Compounds

Buenos dias amigos:

I recently made what I thought was a pretty innocuous
comment as an afterthought on the Rust Removal Thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post11805409

to wit:

"As a footnote, you might consider using anti seize
compound (from the auto parts store) between the
post and tube. I pretty much use it anywhere I don't
want stuff to freeze up -- pedal to crank threads,
freewheel to hub threads, seat post, stem - you get
the idea."

Which drew a follow up comment of:

"You don't need to buy anti seize compound, simple grease thinly applied to both the the al post and the seat tube will prevent it from seizing for at least 5 years and prevent water seepage down the seat tube. Once every two years just remove the post and regrease. Wipe off any excess that oozes out., did I really have to mention that?"

Now many people (less enlightened and positive than I,
who makes a point of always looking for the best in my
fellow man) might interpret that as cantankerous sniping.
Not I. I immediately thought "What if this guy's right?
what if, once again, I have fallen for a clever marketing
phrase and have been wasting the three bucks that
tube of anti-seize cost me about ten years ago at the
Auto Zone?"

Because, let me tell you, I am a member of that generation
of Americans who were hopelessly damaged by listening
to Buffalo Bob Smith pitching Welch's grape juice ad
infinitum on the Howdy Doody Show. This has resulted
in an unfortunate lack of general sales resistance to
such items as the Ron Popeil line of bicycle tools marketed
on late night TV,(see photo attachments), and a serious
PB Blaster (as seen on TV) addiction. My life is thus not an
easy one.

While I now live in sunny Northern California, where bicycle
rust issues are minimal assuming you have some sort of
covered storage in the winter, I have not always been so
blessed. I spent several hypothermic winters in Minnesota
(and would probably still be there if I could have gotten used
to snow in April), and grew up in Washington, D.C. in a time
when road salt seemed to us like a great technological advance.
Additionally, my first adventure in higher education took
place at Webb Institute of Naval Architecture (I did not
finish there), so in a nutshell, I have seen my share of
corrosion. I have always thought anti-seize, just like the
the sacrificial zincs they used to replace from time to time
on the hull bottom of the sub tender I worked on in the navy,
was pretty cool stuff.

So since I discovered it, I have used it -- particularly in the
event of a threaded joint exposed to the elements and in
anything involving the contact of dissimilar metals.

At the risk of kicking off another tempest in a teapot similar
to the one on low end vernier calipers, i solicit your own
vast array of experiences and opinions on the use of various
anti-seize compounds on bicycles. I must say in closing that
it is refreshing to chime in on the side that salutes the march
of progress this go around.

https://www.sacskyranch.com/antiseize.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078.../dp/B000AAJTXY

https://www.meyerplastics.com/adhesiv...e_comp_sht.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Popeil


Respectfully,
Mike Larmer
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Old 11-18-10, 11:57 AM
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Anti Seize, Its what I use on the threads of the spokes when I build up a set of wheels.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:04 PM
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Wow! All that about anti-seize vs grease! Anyway, anti-seize does indeed work well to prevent threaded parts from seizing. In some cases, say automotive spark plugs or many industrial applications, where the operating conditions are very harsh, it is really the only thing to use.

Bicycles operate under very mild conditions of heat, atmosphere and load so, while antiseize does indeed work well, it isn't really needed and plain grease is perfectly satisfactory.

Briefly;

1. You can't go wrong using it on your bike
2. It's isn't a necessity.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:22 PM
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I use anti seize compound rather than grease on everything that are not for lubrication purpose.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:34 PM
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I had not realized when I started this thread that
it has already been discussed somewhat here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ase-on-Threads

My apologies, but I am still interested in what
is predominant in actual practice. Seems
like the greasers (please, no ethnic slur is either
implied or intended) predominate so far.

I honestly have no idea who SactoDoug is.
Kind of interesting that the two guys who live
where rust is a minor problem are believers
in anti-seize.

Mike
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Old 11-18-10, 12:37 PM
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I tend to use anti-seize in Auto applications (exhaust bolts, lugnuts) but use grease on my bikes. One, anti-seize is so messy I would probably have it eveywhere if I used it on a bike and two, I'm with HillRider on this one, the bike conditions just don't warrant it. But if you got it, then use. In the end it doesn't really matter as long as you use something instead of going bare metal to metal.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:44 PM
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I use Molybdenum Grease wherever I don't want things to seize up and actually I use it for repacking bearings and stuff too. I've had a small tub for 10 or more years and it still has plenty.



I used to work on M1 tanks and they used that stuff on virtually every bolt and nut to make sure they wouldn't seize up under all the conditions those things see.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

Last edited by Doohickie; 11-18-10 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:45 PM
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i find that grease is usually way more messy than anti seize and seams to be more of a pain in the a$$ to get off your hands.
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Old 11-18-10, 02:57 PM
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I find exactly the opposite.
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Old 11-18-10, 04:01 PM
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I always take a small whiff of anti-seize before laying down a cantankerous, sniping post directed towards my fellow BFers.

(Never used anti-seize, but now I have something else to worry about not having in my toolbox. Thanks.)


PS Doohickie--that Molybdenum grease is okay for bearings and surfaces? I assume that it contains actual metal in it but I guess not hard enough to damage bearings, etc?
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Old 11-18-10, 04:03 PM
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Antiseize goes on the bottom bracket threads and freewheel hub threads. Otherwise, everything gets grease.

Antiseize is made for threads, no threads on the seat post/seat tube interface.


+1 I find anti seize is messier than grease. And it costs a lot more, so I am not looking for additional uses for it.
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Old 11-18-10, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
PS Doohickie--that Molybdenum grease is okay for bearings and surfaces? I assume that it contains actual metal in it but I guess not hard enough to damage bearings, etc?
Who knows? So far, so good....

I'm not the type to buy some kind of boutique-priced bicycle grease when I have a tub of stuff clearly labeled "grease" already in the house. After writing that, I'm thinking I'm probably not the example you want to follow.

Edit post: According to Wiki, Molybdenum Disulfide acts a lot like Graphite, so I guess I'm good:

Molybdenum disulfide is the inorganic compound with the formula MoS2. This black crystalline sulfide of molybdenum occurs as the mineral molybdenite. It is the principal ore from which molybdenum metal is extracted. The natural amorphous form is known as the rarer mineral jordisite. MoS2 is less reactive than other transition metal chalcogenides, being unaffected by dilute acids. In its appearance and feel, molybdenum disulfide is similar to graphite. Indeed, like graphite, it is widely used as a solid lubricant because of its low friction properties, sometimes to relatively high temperatures.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

Last edited by Doohickie; 11-18-10 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 11-18-10, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
I always take a small whiff of anti-seize before laying down a cantankerous, sniping post directed towards my fellow BFers.

(Never used anti-seize, but now I have something else to worry about not having in my toolbox. Thanks.)


PS Doohickie--that Molybdenum grease is okay for bearings and surfaces? I assume that it contains actual metal in it but I guess not hard enough to damage bearings, etc?
You're welcome.
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Old 11-18-10, 04:51 PM
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I use anti seize on threads for pedals and on seatpost, I use blue loctite on my nuts and bolts. Thats because I have it. If I didn't then I probably wouldn't worry and just use some grease and keep a close watch on the nuts and bolts.

I heard ant-acid, like malox (sp?) works for anti seize....I've also used nail polish in place of loctite on small screws.

I also picked up someplace one of the reasons of lubricating threads with anti seize was limit friction on the threads to reach proper torque specs, but thats another thread....
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Old 11-18-10, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Antiseize goes on the bottom bracket threads and freewheel hub threads. Otherwise, everything gets grease.

Antiseize is made for threads, no threads on the seat post/seat tube interface.


+1 I find anti seize is messier than grease. And it costs a lot more, so I am not looking for additional uses for it.

Not to overintellectualize this, but the better
anti seize compounds are directed at chemically
******ing corrosion at the meeting surfaces
of dissimilar metals-- e.g. your high end alloy
seatpost and your DB steel incredibly expensive
vintage seat tube.

I'm pretty sure the greasers aren't actually snorting
the stuff (correct me if I'm wrong here - also is it
a pleasant buzz if you are?). So I'm guessing that
almost anything that excludes O2 from the surfaces
being protected probably works reasonably well.
Why not paste wax? I've used it for years on
woodworking tools, saws, vices,etc. It's
Probably less durable than a good waterproof
grease though.

One of the interesting things i have so far discovered
is that there are not only different kinds of anti-seize,
which I sort of knew, but also different quality levels.

I hope to God I have the strength of character not
to trot down to Sacramento Sky Ranch (see link in
initial posting) and lay out 20 bucks for the high end
zinc stuff. I really need to find a 12 step group for
this kind of thing.

Mike
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Old 11-18-10, 06:11 PM
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Thirty years ago, I lived upstairs of a salesman from Dow-Corning whose wares included anti-seize compounds. He said use anti-seize compound with a base metal dissimilar to the metals being joined. He gave me eight ounces which I use everywhere and still have a quarter of the stuff left.
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Old 11-18-10, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by flanso View Post
Thirty years ago, I lived upstairs of a salesman from Dow-Corning whose wares included anti-seize compounds........ He gave me eight ounces which I use everywhere and still have a quarter of the stuff left.
Mine is even older. In 1975 a Maintenance man at one of our plants gave me a 16-oz can of Never-Seez brand antiseize (it's grey so I presume it's nickel based and it's rated to 2000F!). I use it on sparkplug threads, engine bolts and other hot service threaded items and on my bottom bracket and a few other threaded bike parts. It's overkill for the bike but since I have it why not?

I also have about half of the original can left since you don't use much at a time. Indeed, it is messy, and far harder to wash off than any grease. Wear old clothes when using it.
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Old 11-18-10, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
PS Doohickie--that Molybdenum grease is okay for bearings and surfaces? I assume that it contains actual metal in it but I guess not hard enough to damage bearings, etc?
I checked the tub I pictured upthread. That grease does, in fact, contain Molybdenum Disulfide, and is designed for wheel bearings and U-joints, and is extremely water resistant. I think it should work.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 11-18-10, 09:49 PM
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3alarmer.

Use the Antiseize if you like but it is overkill for the application and about 10 times the cost of grease. You are overthinking this. These are bikes not rocket boosters or formula 1 engines
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Old 11-19-10, 05:17 AM
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I think you can pretty much use anti-seize anywhere you'd use grease, it's just less common to have around so less people use it. I don't know what the talk is about anti-seize being so much more expensive, it's pretty cheap. But I use nice teflon grease and the plain grey bottle anti-seize, so maybe i've picked the most expensive grease and cheapest anti-seize.
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Old 11-19-10, 06:24 AM
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"Bicycles operate under very mild conditions of heat, atmosphere and load so, while antiseize does indeed work well, it isn't really needed and plain grease is perfectly satisfactory.
"



Perhaps for much of the country this is true. If you ride the coastal roads (many of us do) your bike is subjected to severe conditions due to the salt air, which is like acid to many kinds of metal and really starts causing problems in dissimilar metal joints (i.e. pedals).
All of my bikes have rusted/damaged parts especially on the leading edges of spokes and brakes. Where my spokes join the hubs and nipples there is always evidence of white corrosion. I recently had to use an oxy/acet torch to remove a set of pedals.
Since that experience I have been using a type of anti seize compound known as "Tef-gel" . I use it in my work all the time and everything I have assembled with it comes apart just fine even after years of being subjected to direct salt water spray.

https://www.sailcare.com/tef-gel.shtml


It is expensive but one tube will last a biker a lifetime.

Mike
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Old 11-19-10, 09:21 AM
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Yes, coastal salt and sand conditions are indeed reasonably harsh conditions but routine and careful greasing of the mating surfaces is still adequate. I assume the pedals you had to remove with heat were initially installed with no grease, anti-seize or anything else on the threads. Again, anti-seize does work and works well but it isn't essential.

The Tef-gel you describe sounds a lot like the teflon-based "pipe dope" sold to seal threaded pipe connections and is a paste form of teflon tape used for the same service.
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Old 11-19-10, 11:53 AM
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Nice thing about the Moly grease is that it doesn't have a high-tech name like Graphite or Teflon... just a very esoteric sounding chemical additive- molybdenum disulfide- so they don't mark up the price and it's pretty cheap.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 11-19-10, 02:23 PM
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"Those Who Cannot Remember the Past

are condemned to repeat it" -- George Santayana

It appears I have now mastered the rudiments
of the advanced search function. By this I mean
I stumbled around until after several tries I got
some meaningful results:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

and last, but certainly not least, far and away my
favorite of the old threads on this topic:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=anti+seize

Where the participants were unafraid to
tell you what they really think.


Cheerfully.
Mike Larmer
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Old 11-19-10, 04:20 PM
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You could put anti-seize on the door handles of people you don't like.
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