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About 8 pounds a spoke

Old 12-01-10, 02:33 PM
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About 8 pounds a spoke

So I came up with a F&S Torpedo 3-speed hub earlier this year; cut it out of a 12" wheel off an old Italian folding bike that made its way into the shop. It cleaned up really nicely, there wasn't even a bunch of old hardened grease in the nooks and crannies of the guts. Problem is, it's a 28-hole hub. So... my question: I'm a heavier rider than some, 230# and I really like to ride hard. Will I be taking my life into my own hands by lacing this into a MAVIC 27" rim and just taking it out on the streets? Would tying and soldering the spokes help at all with ultimate strength? I understand that there will be almost no dish to the wheel once it's built and brought into true, yielding a very symmetrical wheel with greater inherent strength. But will it be strong enough? By which I guess I'm asking, How much of my safety margin will I be giving up if I do this?


Am I gonna shoot my eye out? I asked this question on another forum, and the general consensus was that it'll probably work fine... BUT... maybe it won't.


Thoughts?
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Old 12-01-10, 03:20 PM
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Might be worth going to an extra strength spoke such as an Alpine 13/15/14, or Sapim single butted 13/14 g. Check first that the spoke holes in the hub will accept a 13 g spoke, but I'd be very surprised if that was a problem.
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Old 12-01-10, 03:46 PM
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Capitano Blight:

I weigh about what you do, and I really like the way
you put it:
I'm a heavier rider than some, 230#
Me, I usually say I'm a fat a** and need every spoke
I can get in a wheel for peace of mind.

The lowest spoke count I've been able to come to
terms with is 32, but most of my stuff is 36.
As far as tying and soldering, I go with Jobst
Brandt, so I don't think it will do much except
keep any spokes you snap more in place --thus
minimizing complications in this event.

My own concerns run more along the lines of
maintenance and longevity than catastrophic
failure of the life threatening sort. I run over
all kinds of crap, potholes, and bumps in an average
ride and it doesn't take all that much to throw
your wheel out if you weigh 230# and only have
28 spokes in it.

Another way of looking at this might be that
there are plenty of 28 spoke 27" (or700c anyway)
wheels out there with lots of dish and they usually
don't kill anybody. You probably work on a lot of
them if you're in a shop. Low spoke wheels are kinda
like job insurance for bike mechanics. Yours will at
least have less dish.

I understand wanting to use that hub, I have a
Torpedo 3 speed coaster brake hub that came
as original equipment on a DBS Oegland bicycle
that works like a champ..but they were kind enough
to use the 36 hole version with 26x1 3/8 rims.

I guess you already know that reducing your
rim diameter (like to 700c or 26") would make
this proposed wheel more stable.

If you're considering doing this, you must do
your own wheel work, so my vote would be
do it and figure you're probably gonna have to
true it more often.

I really loved living in Minneapolis, too bad I'm
such a wuss about winter.

Most respectfully,
Mike Larmer

Last edited by 3alarmer; 12-01-10 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Workaround
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Old 12-01-10, 03:47 PM
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I may be wrong but it seems the rim diameter would not impact the stress on the hub. It supports the same amount of weight regardless of spoke length.
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Old 12-01-10, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CACycling
...It supports the same amount of weight regardless of spoke length.
That's true, but a larger diameter results in a longer triangle between the rim and the two hub flanges. Imagine cutting a wheel in half and looking at it edge-on. A wider hub or a smaller diameter makes the spokes hit the rim at more of an angle, so it's more stable and stronger in terms of side loading. On a dished wheel, the drive side spokes meet the rim at a shallower angle than an undished wheel, so the dished wheel is slightly weaker in one direction.
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Old 12-01-10, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CACycling
I may be wrong but it seems the rim diameter would not impact the stress on the hub. It supports the same amount of weight regardless of spoke length.
I can't quote you exact figures, but sketch it out
for yourself on a piece of paper. If you shorten
the legs of the triangle that are represented by
the spokes, what would be the result?

I'm not talking about stress on the hub, rather
stability of the whole wheel structure.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: Thanks Monster Pete, I believe your reply
might be clearer than mine.

Last edited by 3alarmer; 12-01-10 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Add Thanks
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Old 12-01-10, 05:26 PM
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CB, I was close to your weight and ran (still do) a 28H wheelset. I am a big advocate of the 14/13 butted spoke.

Brad
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Old 12-01-10, 11:01 PM
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28 spokes are going to be a little light. I did the same thhing with an old SA 3 sp. hub last century. I built it up with a mountain bike rim and double butted spokes. I used it in the refinery on a Schwin cruiser and carried my 185 lb. fat a.. for 13 years. I also carried a lot of tools on the bike and the wheel lived.
After I retired I gave the bike to Grumpy and one of the other pipe fitters backed over the wheel with a pick-up truck and killed it.
I used 14-15 DT spokes and tensioned the wheel to 110kilos.
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Old 12-02-10, 10:18 AM
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I'm bigger than that (260#) and I've run 24 spoke OEM rear wheels in the past. That being said, they didn't last long maybe only about 4k miles or so, and they failed at the rim holes rather than popping spokes. My Mavic Ksyrium Elites have 20 spokes in the rear and are still straight and true after 10k miles, too. So it depends a lot on build quality and the stiffness of the rim- Balance the tension well on double-butted spokes and use a good stiff rim with eyelets and the wheel will be plenty strong.
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Old 12-02-10, 04:50 PM
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Thanks, everybody, I just ordered a Mavic Open Pro rim from QBP and am going to give it a whirl with the 14/15 spokes. I've got to assume I'm going to need spoke washers, I should probably order some of them too.
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Old 12-02-10, 04:53 PM
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Hope it works - nobody addressed the hub, and I don't recall Torpedo 3 speeds as being particularly good.
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