Aged Bike Fixer

Just picked up a bike with some speedplay frogs that cannot be removed. I'm figuring there's some loctite sitting in the thread--or the previous owner cranked the pedals on so tight that the threads are binding against each other.

I've read that heat will break the hold of Loctite red, but was worried about how much heat the crank arms can take (the cranks are Campy Chorus, so I really don't want to screw this up). My current options are a cheap soldering wand and small blow torch.

I found info for which loctite to use when screwing in the pedals, but nothing about removal.

Any suggestions?

simonaway427

I 100% don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you know that they are threaded oppositely right? Right side: lefty loosy, left side: righty loosy.

Aged Bike Fixer

I'll try not to be insulted. I know how pedals are threaded.

I'll try not to insult your intelligence by suggesting that even if I didn't know that the left side is reverse threaded, I would have been able to remove the right pedal.

My original question still stands.

phoebeisis

Have you tapped -sharp rap-the bottom of the spindle with a metal punch or a nail-to fracture and "rust"between steel and aluminum?
Applied penetrating oil-repeat
then put your wrench on- long as possible-preload it so it doesn't gouge the threads-
Then give your wrench a sharp rap-with a hammer
Don't try to twist the pedals off with brute force- hit the wrench with a series of sharp raps-
Helps to have 3 hands.
This will also break any threadlocker- or galvanic grunge
Charlie

bradtx

ABF, I had one of four pedals of a tandem crankset that wouldn't release. It took brute force using a cheater bar on the crankarm and one on the pedal and perhaps heat would've helped, but I was worried about the crankarm's cosmetics. Sharp hammer raps on the spindle may've helped, but it was still a bear.

No thread locker had been used and spun easily in the threads once broken loose. Cost was a pedal wrench and a combination wrench.

Brad

Aged Bike Fixer

Yea, I have tried the impact approach by holding the wrench and hitting the pivot point (on the wrench not the crank). I didn't have a helper, so the force was likely absorbed by my hand since I don't have the chain on. I've also applied plenty of penetrating oil. I don't have a good way to rig a cheater bar.

I think I'll try the following:
* Put the chain on and put the bike on the floor and try to jar the pedal loose by hitting the wrench.
* If that doesn't work, I'll try the soldering wand to the pedal spindle. I'm not ready to move to the torch... I'm scared I'll compromise the integrity of the cranks.

I found this discussion of a similar problem:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-25105.html

Thanks for the tips. If I'm successful, I'll post any tips for the next wrencher who runs into this problem.

phoebeisis

You are right- you need the chain on-can't put much Umph into it without the chain on and in a tall gear.
Obviously you want your wrench to be as close to parallel to the ground as possible so you are hitting straight down- you want the crankarm at about 3 oclock and wrench about 9 oclock.
Sometimes with no chain on you can block the opposite crankarm(stick it under a server or chest of drawers -but your wife will kill you if it is grannies server).
Probably best to just put the chain on it a tall gear

It will come off with a series of sharp raps with the chain on.
It is really tough to bring much force to bear with the chain off(and grannies server off limits)
I ALWAYS look up which way to turn the pedals and the BB cups-got it backwards once on Campy Super Record BB(1979 Titanium spindle) chewed up the cup on one side- really DUMB!
Luck
Charlie

3alarmer 

You might benefit from reading one of these:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...sted-on-Pedals

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...+frozen+pedals

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...+frozen+pedals

You appear to have a cotterless three piece crank, so
that gives you the option of pulling the arms so that
you can use a vise to clamp them (using padding or
some sort of protection between vise jaws and crank
arm.) That's pretty much how I would go at it.

Note the Jobst Brandt trick of heating the pedal/
crank junction with a gas stove. This uses the
properties of alloy vs steel expansion rates and
heat conduction rates to your advantage. It
should also take care of blue loctite and possibly
even the red stuff. It will not get you in nearly
as much trouble as going at your crank arms
with a torch.

Go get 'em, bub.

Mike Larmer

FBinNY 

Before resorting to heat, try maximum leverage and brute force. With really frozen pedals, I prefer to remove the crank and carefully fixture it in a vise in a way that won't mar it. I've never had to go longer than 18" or so to free pedals. If that doesn't work try Liquid Wrench, Kroil, or other similar penetrating oil product.

If you need heat try plunging in boiling water. If you go for open flame hearing, be very careful beacuse unlike steel, aluminum melts very suddenly at a fairly low temp without changing color or giving any other warning.

mustachiod

do you have a long pedal wrench? i made an extender out of some old pipe for mine.

then stand on it and push down like you are kickstarting a motorcycle. try not to fall off or slip and shatter your shins in the process

blamp28

This product by Loctite is pretty effective. When you spray it on a stuck fastener, it chills it down to -40 forcing the rust/gunk or whatever is bonding it to crack and allowing the penetrent lube in.

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Freeze...353890&sr=8-13

jtelford

If you want to put a tight flame in a very localized area (like on the stub of the pedal, without touching the crank arms), then take a look at some of the butane torches used for soldering. Some have a small, but but pretty hot flame. It would be easy to control what you are heating.

slowandsteady

I had a set of pedals on my MTB that needed to be removed. I took a regular wrench(didn't have a pedal wrench) and 4 FOOT long pipe to use as leverage. Needless to say, those pedals came off with minimal effort with the extra leverage. Before I used the pipe I literally stood on the wrench and it still didn't budge. I keep that pipe around for hard to remove bolts from all sorts of things. It has never let me down.

It is a pipe post from a cyclone fence like these. Handy to have around.

3alarmer 

This is not a good idea because:



So the localization of the flame is, in
my experience, a disadvantage in this
situation. Really, open flame should be
a last resort. I get the impression you
suspect loctite, but have no definite
confirmation one way or the other.
If you're certain it's loctite, look here:

https://www.ehow.com/how_5201363_remo...ite-bolts.html

for a general idea of the temps involved
with the various loctite formulations. The
melting point of aluminum is variously listed
as around 1200dF, so there is some leeway,
but FB is correct in that it has a tendency to
go from looks fine to in a heartbeat
when using a torch on it.

Mike

DannoXYZ 

One way to gauge the temperature of the aluminium is to put a layer of soot on it with a rich yellow flame (torche with no air/o2). Then heat it with the blue hot flame evenly with lots of movement to spread the heat evenly around the end of the crank. When the soot starts to disappear, the temperature is getting close to melting point. Stop before then and crank on the wrench.

It could also be that you're not able to get enough force on the wrench due to the crank spinning. As previously mentioned, removing the crankarm and clamping it in a vice helps hold it in place to give you leverage with the pedal-wrench. What I"ve also done is spin the crankarm so that it's parallel to the chainstay, then wrap several toe-straps around both the crankarm & chainstay (or wrap an old inner-tube). This keeps the crankarm from spinning and lets you get all your weight on the wrench. Easier with a 4-foot extension, although I've snapped the outer half-circle around the pedal-hole completely off this way. But that just meant that the corrosion was quite strong and the pedal wasn't gonna come out anyway.

I've also had very good luck with PB-blaster.

Jeff Wills

In my experience, Campy pedal threads are machined a little different than Shimano and the result is a very tight fit between the pedal spindle and the crank. I'd follow Danno's prescription: immobilize a crankarm against the frame and then go after the opposite pedal with a pedal wrench and a big cheater bar.

I bet they were installed without any lubrication and the threads have gotten corroded. Prayer and lots of leverage is the way to go.

phoebeisis

The OP didn't have the crankset secured-chain off- so it was going to be nearly impossible to get them off.
Once he secures the crankset- with the chain on, or by locking the offside crankarm down- he'll will be able to remove it relatively easily.
Doubt he'll need any torch. A cheater bar penetrating oil a few metal to metal preraps, and a hammer will do it.
Charlie

bobn

Do you think if you beat it with the chain on that you will transfer the shock to other components and possibly cause damage?
I have broken loose a lot of rusty stuff with a good soak in white vinegar overnight. It's cheap and worth a try.

DannoXYZ 

Doesn't matter if the chain is on or not, the direction the crank wants to spin is backwards anyway. So the chain won't stop the crank from spinning and it won't take any of the load from pedal-removal. Any impact forces will go through the crankarm to the BB. Another idea is to use a crow's-foot wrench with an impact-driver. I really like this titanium unit with 1000-lb*ft torque. Saved me a lot of back-aches installing and removing centerlock wheels on my car.

bobn

If indeed it is Locktite and not rust/corrosion, a quick Google shows that heat is the way to remove.

HillRider

One way to support the crank arm without a chain in place is to use a section of 2x4 stood vertically under the crankarm at the pedal end and the other end on the floor. Have the crank arms horizontal and the arm under attack pointed toward the rear of the bike. Brace it with the 2x4 and apply whatever it takes to the pedal wrench.

Aged Bike Fixer

What I neglected to mention was that the bike in question is a fixed gear, so having the chain on would be helpful--although I might try bracing the opposite crank arm with a 2x4 before I re-assembly the bike.

phoebeisis

"Doesn't matter if the chain is on or not, the direction the crank wants to spin is backwards anyway. So the chain won't stop the crank from spinning and it won't take any"

The above is incorrect
Even with a derailleur it matters if the chain is on-
YOU HAVE TO POSITION THE CRANKARM AT 3 OCLOCK(OR SLIGHTLY "LATER" AND YOUR WRENCH AT 9 OCLOCK OR SLIGHTLY EARLIER.

When you hit the wrench you will be pushing the crankarm down-forward-against the chain-but the pedals will be turned backwards.
Try it- it will be obvious- I've done it hundreds of times. (of course you won't be able to get it at exactly 3 and 9 oclock, but you get the idea).
Charlie

Trek400

Since you tried many different forcing ways, I have a suggestion to use a PB Blaster Penetrating Catalyst spray (not WD40) and give it time. It works well on stubborn/rusty stuff. good luck

JTGraphics

I have a 4x6 block that stands about 9" with a groove in it that the crank arm can sit in, or you can place the pedal on it this gives it a solid platform to apply force to remove pedal place block as close to the end of crank arm as you can.
Now with that said who's pedal wrench are you using? I ask because I have a few and some work much better than others the straight handle parks tools wrench works the best the spin doctor is the worst that curve in it makes it want to twist and you loose all the force when applying pressure on it.
You may also want to if you have the tools is use the back side of the pedal shaft it should have an allen fitting that you can put a socket into and just use a long breaker bar on it to remove from the back side.
In any case good luck with it apply heat only as last resort.