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1970s Bottom bracket cup now stuck whilst screwing in....

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1970s Bottom bracket cup now stuck whilst screwing in....

Old 01-12-11, 04:45 PM
  #1  
mrkano
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1970s Bottom bracket cup now stuck whilst screwing in....

So I finally get some new bearings today and tonight as I'm sliding in the bottom bracket cup, it just sticks, when I try to tighten with the spanner, as the grip is so thin it just chips away, now my BB cup is stuck. Thankfully no bearings inside as it was just a test slide to see where it would go in or not etc.

Any ideas on what I can do to solve this....

What were they thinking back i the 70s!!!!
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Old 01-12-11, 05:05 PM
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Okay, I misread your earlier thread so thought you were talking about cup on left side, we are in fact talking about fixed cup on right side. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.......-Which-one.

Which way are you turning the cup? The right hand side is reverse threaded so you need to be turning counterclockwise.Perhaps its jammed in from attempts to turn in wrong direction? Otherwise best guess is that when you screwed in, the cup wasn't straight so went in a bit crooked and jammed. Anyway, I think more info is needed about how exactly you attempted to install the cup to determine next steps.
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Old 01-12-11, 05:16 PM
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i agree with DOS. sounds like you might have cross threaded while screwing in the cup. either that or the threads in your bottom bracket shell were damaged before. cups should screw in with minimal effort / resistance. make sure you grease the threads for corrosion protection and easier installation. even for the test run.

if you can get the stuck BB cup back out. carefully check your threads. you may need to get them re-cut or cleaned up at the bike shop...
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Old 01-12-11, 05:19 PM
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Hi. No, that was a different bike.

This is a different one. This one, the fixed is on the right hand side, the adjustable is on the left......

I was screwing this one in this new thread (on the left) clockwise in.....

That other one I was on about, I can't find a spanner big enough to fit it!!! So frustrating!!
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Old 01-12-11, 05:36 PM
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If it's not a French or Italian bike the right cup has a Left hand thread, so it sounds like you must have cross-threaded it turning it in to the right.

Soak it in oil, and see if you can move it in either direction, then work it out by turning to the right. Be careful, odds are the cup is damaged, possibly beyond salvage, but you don't want to damage the frame's BB shell.
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Old 01-12-11, 05:39 PM
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Is the frame BB shell not likely damaged already???? :/

How can I get this out now??? I'm thinking drilling holes in or something and trying to turn from there???
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Old 01-12-11, 05:40 PM
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Just out if interest, what is the technical term for this type of BB????

Size etc??
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Old 01-12-11, 05:45 PM
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Stop working on it, you'll only make things worse.

Take and post a photo so we can see what you're dealing with and give you some on-point advice. Also tell us the name on the frame, so we can try to determine whether the BB is British, French or Italian thread. Then tell us what BB you bought and the thread.

Meanwhile just give it a rest, and don't come back to it until you have a plan of action.
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Old 01-12-11, 06:06 PM
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I can't imagine putting a cup in so tight that you would need this, but Sheldon Brown has a DIY tool that will eliminate your grip problem.



Look here: https://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
under "Fixed Cup Tools"

I used this to get the bottom bracket out of a rusty old Gitane I bought. I had to apply enough force that it left a deep imprint on the washer and bent the threads on the bolt, but the cup eventually came out. I'm guessing it would be much easier than that for your situation. Of course, you probably need to get the bottom bracket threads chased when you're done.
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Old 01-14-11, 02:30 AM
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OK thanks, tonight I'll get to it with some pictures of it....... Thanks for the help....

Speak in about 9 hours
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Old 01-16-11, 10:37 AM
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Hi guys, hope you can see these OK??

so 2 problems...

The first 2 pics.... Are my Raleigh, with the BB cup stuck, possibly cross threaded????
Someone said that these should just slide right in, my one was a bugger, hence now its stuck and no grip left to try screw off...

Hopefully nothing major

The second 2, are my Falcon, which is the one with the cups on the wrong way by the looks of it??

I can't get the BB/crank off due to not being able to access the chain side...???

So any suggestions please on the above??

Thanks...
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Old 01-16-11, 11:42 AM
  #12  
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Hi mrkano,

I just got through a relatively epic Raleigh crankset replacement of my own. Broke two tools and lost a month of transportation. But it's done now and looks good!

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...m-bracket-mess

Heat and penetrating oil (I just use WD-40, which seems to work fine) are two important tools for stuck or tight fasteners.

Mark Stonich sells a tool that works pretty well for Raleigh fixed cups. You have to be careful to install it tightly, though, or it will slip and damage both the cup and the tool. It is one of the two tools I unfortunately broke:

https://bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/index.html

I don't have any idea what's going on with the Falcon. There's no way that the two cups could have gotten transposed, however, as they're threaded in opposite directions (left side is right-hand threaded and vice versa), as is standard for 1970s British bikes. Perhaps they're correctly installed and someone just left off the lockring on the left side?
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Old 01-16-11, 11:45 AM
  #13  
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The first picture shows Raleigh cups, where both sides look identical but one is normal thread and the other reverse thread. You need a thin wrench or this to properly remove and install them:


On the Falcon it appears you may have the spindle installed backwards.
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Old 01-16-11, 02:55 PM
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Hmmmmmm, can't see how that tool could work with the issue I have, I have no grip on my BB cup....

Someone said get it in a vice and turn it from there????


Does anyone know what that falcon cup spanner size is??? Like a spanner size???
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Old 01-16-11, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mrkano View Post
Hmmmmmm, can't see how that tool could work with the issue I have, I have no grip on my BB cup....
The square tool fits over the raised area on the cup and is held in place by a bolt. You can then use a wrench or vise on the square tool to get enough leverage and grip to remove the cup.



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Old 01-16-11, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mrkano View Post
Does anyone know what that falcon cup spanner size is??? Like a spanner size???
Standard fixed cups are 32mm over the flats, but you shouldn't have to remove it. From your pictures I suspect you merely have the spindle installed backwards, i.e. the right side of the spindle is installed on the left side of the bike, and vise-versa.
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Old 01-16-11, 04:51 PM
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Don't have to remove it????

How do I get the spindle out?? I need to sand the frame down but the cranks are in the way......???

How can I get it off without taking this spindle off???
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Old 01-17-11, 08:28 AM
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I don't know about the Raleigh but why cant you take the crank off the Falcon to get at the cup on the right side? That said, you probably don't need to remove the fixed cup. I agree that appears there is lock ring missing on the adjutsable cup side. You should be able to remove the adjustable cup with a pin spanner. I can't see the face of the cup but there should be small holes in it. The pin spanner fit into those holes for purposes of turning the cup.

You can use either this https://www.parktool.com/product/pin-spanner-green

or this (y-shaped side) https://www.parktool.com/product/cran...acket-wrench-1

Edited to add: For the Raleigh you could get one of these to see if you can get enough purchase her unstuck: https://www.parktool.com/product/adjustable-cup-wrench
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Old 01-24-11, 05:48 AM
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Hi Thanks for the advice.

I have bought a 32mm spanner and that should be with me soon, that will be the falcon sorted.

Still the Raleigh is a problem, there is no grip what so ever on that cup, going to have to stick it in a vice... And use some brute force.
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Old 01-24-11, 03:33 PM
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WAIT!!!

Before you try the brute force, drill 2 holes in the face of the cup the size of the pins on your pin spanner. Then use the pin spanner, some penetrating oil and a bit of heat on the BB shell. TRY to drill the holes someplace other than in the middle of the bearing race.

BEFORE trying to move the cup, slide the edge of a playing card into the threads to see which way they are angled/threaded. Turn the cup in whichever direction the threads rise AWAY from the BB shell.

Deburr the holes after removal. You can leave them open or seal them with silicone or other substance (like epoxy) if you want.
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Old 01-24-11, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The first picture shows Raleigh cups, where both sides look identical but one is normal thread and the other reverse thread. You need a thin wrench or this to properly remove and install them:


On the Falcon it appears you may have the spindle installed backwards.

this is a pretty neat tool. will it work with the spindle instead of the threaded rod?
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Old 01-24-11, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mrkano View Post
Any ideas on what I can do to solve this....
Do you happen to have an under-the-bottom bracket cable guide? If so, remove the little screw that holds it and see what that does for you.
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Old 01-24-11, 05:53 PM
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Another possibility is that the Raleigh shell is 26 TPI Raleigh proprietary threading, and the cup is 24 TPI British standard. It will screw in three turns only, and then stick like glue. If it's inaccessible with the Sheldon tool (maybe the fixed cup is still installed?) then I'd just do a destructive removal with a pipe wrench- it will bugger the threads on the cup, but it will come out. If it's the wrong threading, then no great loss anyway.
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Old 01-29-11, 03:30 PM
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Hi guys..

I bought a 32mm spanner as Iwas told that this would work on the Falcon (the one that is the wrong way round) but it isn't....

Any ideas..... I just wasted 10 pound....
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Old 01-29-11, 05:19 PM
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Did you happen to measure the size between the flat on the Falcon's cups? The only time I need a 32mm spanner is for threaded headsets.

You seem to be in a panic about all this rather than slowing down and actually studying what is going on. Take a deep breath, quite forcing things in bad ways which has only gotten you rounded corners on the one cup and study things more carefully. And as mentioned if it takes more than minimal force to do something such as a bearing cup that only goes in a few turns and then gets tight then generally something is wrong and it's time to back up instead of using force.

Of course all this is 20-20 hindsight at this point. But hopefully it'll make you stop and consider before plungeing on in the future.

I missed your other thread but what's the reason you can't remove the crank arms on the Falcon? I'm assuming that you were trying to use a crank arm puller and things went bad?

As for your stuck cup I'd say the best option is to drill two holes for a pin spanner as mentioned already. Or try Sheldon's cheap and dirty clamped in place bolt and nut trick. And just double check the cup threads to figure out which way the thread lead is going and be sure you're turning the cup the right way to ease it out.
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