reelfishin

About two years ago I found a Panasonic ATB, all is well but the seat post was frozen in place. After trying just about everything, including soaking it for almost two years with various penetrating lubes, I finally got time to spend on it. I cut the top of the SR Laprade post off about an inch above the frame, drilled a 19/32" hole down the middle and used a hacksaw blade to cut through the post down to the inside of the frame tube, first I cut one slot, then a second slot, 180 degrees from the first. The post is thick, over 1/4" thick the whole way down and it's into the frame about 9". I now have it cut in half lengthwise in two equal halves, but it still won't budge. I've tried putting the end in a vise and using the frame as leverage but it don't move. Neither half will budge. I even widened the two cuts to give it room to move but that did nothing. I even tried heating the post a bit but I don't want to ruin the perfect paint.
Any ideas?
I'm thinking that at this point I'm going to have to drill the whole thing out and ream the seat post tube to get it all out? The odd part is that the inside of the seat post tube don't look rusty, it's not overexpanded as if someone hammered in the wrong post, and I can even see space around the top of edges of the seat post. I even tried vise grips on a slide hammer, and no movement. I'm wondering if the thing isn't glued in at this point.
I really figured that once the tension was released the seat post was in two long pieces it would let go, but it's as stuck as ever. Right now I have the BB clamped in a soft jaw vise, and a pipe wrench on the top of the post and it does nothing, I can flex the two halves together up top but can't get any reaction down low. I even let it sit overnight with some tension on it and no go.

Chombi

You might have to have it reamed out by a machine shop if nothing works. God knows but the PO might have used some sort of epoxy on it or something as it does not seem to make sense that it's still not budging at all after all that cutting and physical effort.

Chombi

reelfishin

I figured that after the first cut it would 'pop' loose but even now after four cuts, each down to the steel inside of the tube, the four pieces won't budge. I even clamped onto one of those pieces in a vise with the frame upside down and it won't budge. I can twist the top almost off but it won't let go. The next step is a big drill bit down the center to get as close to the ID of the tubing as I can without hitting it, then the seatpost reamer I guess.
I have to get the inside hole large enough to start the seat post reamer that will match this frame tube size.
I was surprised that it didn't just spin free after the second cut when I passed a 5/8" drill down the middle of the mess. Even hammering hard on the top of the stubs don't move anything.

Airburst

If it's been glued, acetone or something might dissolve the glue if you could get it into the joint, depending on what the glue is. You mentioned spaces at the top of the post, maybe you could put the acetone in there somehow, and gradually remove the glue...

bikeman715

1. Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia. [Jobst Brandt doesn't think this works, because the ammonia won't penetrate -- see his comments on stuck handlebar stems. Drano drain cleaner in water also dissolves aluminum oxide. Leaving the frame upside down with the seatpost soaking in one of these liquids may possibly free the seatpost. With the frame upside down, you might also run liquid down from inside as described in the next suggestion. -- John Allen]
2. [Temperature-differential method, which is applicable to any seatpost material: Buy dry ice (solid carbon dioxide, which melts at -78.5° C (- 108° F). If you have access to laboratory supplies, you might also use liquid nitrogen, which is even colder, though its cooling effect is not as great because it boils, forming a shield of gas around itself. Ordinary water ice also might work. Remove the bottom-bracket parts, cork the top of the seatpost if it is open, and with the frame upside-down and a saddle attached to the seatpost, drop chips of (dry) ice or pour liquid nitrogen down the seat tube into the seatpost. Then hold the saddle down on the floor with your feet and twist the frame. You may also warm the seat tube by pouring hot water onto its outside. Wear winter gloves, and socks. Do not touch dry ice, the seatpost or other parts chilled by dry ice or liquid nitrogen. I thank John Newgard for this suggestion. Sheldon's original suggestion follows -- John Allen] If nothing else works to free up a steel or titanium seatpost, the next-to-last resort is to heat the seat tube up with a hair dryer or propane torch. This should be done with great care so as not to do too much damage to the paint. You should work as fast as you safely can, because you want to heat the seat tube so that it will expand, but if possible you should quickly put the torch down and start pulling on the saddle before the heat works its way through the seat tube and makes the seatpost expand too.
3. The torch technique is worse than useless when you are dealing with an aluminum seatpost stuck in a steel or titanium frame, because aluminum expands twice as much as steel, and 2 1/2 times as much as titanium for the same increase in temperature. In fact, the exact opposite technique will often do the trick for aluminum seatposts -- cool the seatpost down as rapidly as possible. The contents of a CO2 tire inflation cartridge applied inside the seatpost can shrink it down just enough to do the trick. [As will dry ice, which is also CO2, and can get the seatpost colder-- John Allen]
4. If nothing else works, the final resort is the old hacksaw blade trick. Cut the seatpost off so that about 1/2" is left sticking out, then insert a hacksaw blade into the seatpost and carefully cut a slit in the post. This is very laborious, and you run the risk of damaging the frame if you cut too far, but this approach cannot fail. Once you have cut the slit, grab one edge of the cut with a locking plier and roll the seatpost up inside itself and pull it out. credit Sheldon Brown

wrk101

Do a search on stuck seat posts. In the end, you have to decide whether it is worth the effort. If I had an ATB that resisted most of the easier methods, I would be parting it out. Too many good ATB bikes and frames out there pretty cheap. I thought I could free up any stuck post, and at one point, I was 10 out of 10. Then stuck post #11 came along. I am now 10 out of 11.....

Amesja

I've heard that CRC-Freeze-off is the slick trick for stuck seat posts.

Chombi

Yes, I've used Freeze-Off with much success getting out really stuck stems and seized BB cups, but being that the seatpost in this case had been already cut up and pieces might have been taken out already, the freeze-shrink effect that usually breaks the corrosive bond might not happen to the extent needed as the mass of the post had already been reduced........still wouldnt hurt to try anyway though,
To add, if the post was glued with epoxiy on to the frame, which is one of the OP's suspicion, I'm not sure there is anything readily available out there to dissolve epoxy.
Still a possibility that this was done cause I can see the original owner having a slipping seatpost problem that would not go away and might have had a "brilliant" idea of glueing on the seatpost with epoxy. I've seen goofier things than that before....

Chombi

reelfishin

I don't see many large ATB bikes, let alone Panasonic bikes period. This is my size and the rest of the bike is decent sans a bad rim. I like the fact that it takes a big tire, the old Schwinn I have now won't take much more than a 2.0 tire.
To me any old bike is worth just about any amount of work to save since they don't make these anymore. It's not like I can go down the bike shop and buy a new one if I scrap this one. At best I'd end up with something made in China for $400 or more. This is a rigid fork, has huge steel handle bars, and a cool double clamp SR stem and Cantilever brakes. The gears are all Suntour AG Tech. It's got those huge dimpled Araya rims too, they look like motorcycle wheels and it weighs a ton. This thing is built like a tank.
I can't imagine what they were trying to do by using an alloy seat post? Save weight?
Its the only 24 1/2" frame MTB I've ever seen too.

I gave up on the soaking and cutting with a saw blade, if cutting the post in four inside the tube doesn't release it, I guess nothing short of drilling and reaming it out will work. I started to drill it out in steps earlier tonight, it's almost to the point where I can get the reamer down and start expanding it to cut away what's left. I really figured that drilling alone would have jarred it free but nothing doing. It's down to about 1/16" thick aluminum in small strips and I can't even get the edges to peel or come free of the inside of the tube. There's also really no rust, so at this point I'm betting on it being glued in there. Maybe someone didn't have the right size seat post and filled the gap with epoxy, who knows? But it'll be gone completely tomorrow when I get back to it. When I started this I had hoped to save the nice old SR Laprade seat post, but that's over now, so it don't matter how it comes out, it's coming out by force, the game now is just not to damage the frame.

wrk101

I've got six Panasonics right now, five bought in the last six months. I like Panasonics, but I would consider most of the Japanese bike manufacturers to be interchangeable (they all are pretty good). So I have had good Miyatas, Univegas, Centurions, Lotus, Panasonic, Nishiki, and others. Japan built some great bikes in the 1980s in particular.

But a 24 1/2 inch MTB frame would be hard to find. I think the largest I have picked up was 23 inch.

Amesja

The game is to WIN. I have a saying when it comes to wrenching on anything:

Amesja ALWAYS wins!

There is no surrender and I never take prisoners.

Airburst

Off-topic, but any chance of a few pictures? This sounds like quite a cool bike!

reelfishin

I don't have any pics handy, the bike is all apart right now.
Here's the brochure pic from 1985: https://picasaweb.google.com/scarsgo/...13261101890658

The frame measures 24 1/2" From the middle of the crank axle to the top of the seat tube. It's a big bike.
This one has it's original tires, although the side walls are all bubbled up, the tread has little to no wear, every bit of the bike is original. Now I have to find a new SR Laprade seat post for it. The old one is out, I swept up the remains just a little while ago. To my amazement, the inside of the seat tube is rust free, it's even still painted for the most part. I drilled it out with a 1" drill bit, then worked a seat post reamer till I got past the old post. There was some powdery aluminum but it sure didn't look like enough to hold the post from moving that bad. It resisted all the way down to the last cut. The entire post came out in tiny reamer shavings. I sort of figured that once it got thin it would 'peel' away as I expanded the reamer but no such luck.
(I'm super glad I bought this old reamer years ago, other then cleaning up seat post tubes here and there, it's the most I've used it so far. I think it was sold by Eldi Tools. It came as a throw in when I bought my BB threading set off a bike shop owner that was retiring.

Now all is left is to get all the shavings out of the frame, the seat post tube is closed off at the bottom partially, it don't go through to the BB directly, the BB shell is made so that water can't get down the seat post into the crankaxle area. The lug portion is open only to a small opening at the bottom of the shell, which also acts as a drain I guess. I used a lot of lube while cutting out the seat post so the shavings are all caked up at the bottom. I'll have to take it to work and blast it out with air and some solvent. I also want to treat the inside of the frame with something to prevent any future rust.

Right now I'm really just glad I got it out and the frame is OK.

The paint on this thing is decent, there's some chain slap paint wear and the normal scratches and chips for a bike that's 25 years old.
When I found this bike I was looking for a large frame older MTB. I was particually after a Schwinn High Sierra like I had before, which I sold before I moved back in the early 90's. When I found this, I liked this better. I'd still like to find another Schwinn High Sierra in a black chrome 23" frame, but for now this will work.
A big plus is that it's a Panasonic, which have always seemed to be a step above the rest of the Japanese brands. I've owned four or five now and every one was top notch. It's one of the brands I've got a soft spot for I guess.

FastJake

Glad to hear you got the post out. Sounds like a cool bike. If you like large old ATBs, you'd like my '86 Ross Mt. Hood. IIRC the seat tube measured 24" center to center. Fully chromed frame, triple butted Tange tubing, SunTour XC Power components, roller cam brakes, etc.



Much to my regret I sold it, for far too low a price.

vintagebicycle

I had the same thing to deal with today, a stuck SR Laprade in an old Trek. Nothing would budge it, even after soaking it for a month. I finally gave up and cut the top off, drilled it out enough to get a saw down the inside of the post and cut the thing in half. Even then it fought me ever last inch.
I found some hacksaw blades called 'The Aggressor" in 10tpi, they cut through the aluminum in a matter of about a half hour, both cuts, the the lower tooth count won't cut into the steel tube as fast if you go too far.
It come out without even a mark. Now I need to find me another 26.4 SR post.

jccaclimber

I might actually have one of those posts sitting idle in a bike. I'll have to see what size it is. Interesting how the wall thickness decreases. Was the entire post cast?

Amesja

/off topic...

Thanks for the picture and info on that '86 Mt. Hood!

I can say with certainty that my own Ross isn't an '86 after seeing this one. It's set up totally different with DiaComp brakes (rear is up on the seatstays), and Shimano components. I'm thinking it must be an '85 or '84 -did they even make the Mt. Hood before that?

FastJake

All my knowledge of Ross is from the internet so take it with a grain of salt. But if you scroll down to '86 in this link you can see a review of my bike, so I assume it must be an '86: https://mombat.org/Ross.htm

I've seen older Mt. Hoods on the internet with wide-profile cantilever brakes. They were dated 82-84. So it's certainly possible your bike is older. Here's an '83 with some wild gold trim: https://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc...lwood0108.html

Amesja

Mine came all-chrome and with Shimano derailleurs & thumbies and DiaComp brakes/levers. The Crank/rings are Sakae as is the seatpost and with a Hatta bottom bracket. Maybe my bike was built out of the parts bin -I don't know. I've never seen one set up like it anywhere. The '84 from the first link doesn't seem to match it either. But it has the horizontal drop-outs of a Mt. Hood at least.

Go figure.

vintagebicycle

SR Laprade posts are all one big cast or forged piece of aluminum. The area up top where it's shiny was even thicker, in order to cut through the post I had to drill it out large enough to fit a hacksaw blade down the middle. The original hole was only about 10mm and its offset to the rear a bit. The post was tough, it was stuck and no amount of hammering, soaking, or twisting was moving it. The frame it was in was super clean so I didn't try heat. It was in a Trek 412 from around 1981 or so. What got me was that when I first got the bike, I lowered the seat and took a quick ride to get a feel for the bike before the tear down. It moved just fine, I loosened the clamp, and the seat all but slide down on it's own. A week later it wouldn't budge. It didn't look like it sat with water in it, and it was kept indoors here, in a heated space.
The bottom of the seat post was where it was stuck, and no amount of penetrating oil was helping. I emptied two cans of PB blaster into the seat tube through the water bottle screw holes and let it soak Even once it was cut it didn't move easily, I had it in a vise and had to really work it back and forth to get it to move. I finally put a pair of Vise Grips on a slide hammer and pulled out each half separately. For as bad as it was stuck, the frame and post don't look that bad, at least not as bad as usual.

Being in an area with a lot of rust both from road salt and being near saltwater, stuck seat posts and stems are fairly common. If you don't grease the post, count on cutting it out later.

jccaclimber

Did you try dripping ammonia in there? I had to extract an aluminum post from an old Vitus. I tried PB Blaster (really only good for ferrous metals and caked grease in my experience) and all liquid wrench. After soaking some diluted ammonia in there for only a couple hours it slipped right out.

vintagebicycle

I've tried ammonia on several cases but have never had it do a thing?
I did soak this one for a while with pure ammonia, and then I tired super hot water with ammonia but no luck. There was some corrosion on the seat post on mine but not a lot, very little aluminum oxide.

reelfishin

I remember when those were still new on the showroom floor, at that time I couldn't bring myself to make the change or get used to a mountain bike for some reason, I got on one and didn't like it at all and didn't end up finally buying one till 1988 when I bought a black chrome Schwinn High Sierra. The place I worked at was sponsoring charity rides and put up most of the cash for the bikes, the Schwinn dealer was on the list of places we could go for a bike, and Ross was already all but gone from the shop floors. I didn't keep the Schwinn long, I sold it a few years later never getting used to it, but I stumbled on a well worn Schwinn Mesa Runner from 1984 about 10 years ago and got to like that bike. I'd love to have the High Sierra back again now. I picked up the Panasonic ATB since it's a lot lighter than the Mesa Runner and more road bike like frame wise. There's no real offroad riding around here, I ride mostly on the road and some dirt trails at a park nearby. Mostly for exercise these days.
I'd probably jump at the chance to buy an older Ross MTB, especially an all chrome model if it were in my size too.
For now the Panasonic ATB is the project at hand, I have a new set of rims on the way, and the rest is just detailing work and some touch up paint. It won't be super light with the steel bars and double stem, I could lighten it a lot but I'd rather just leave it all original.

keidal

Hi, if you take the frame to a decently-equipped car body repair / paint shop, they should be able to release it with equipment which I believe has some sort of magnetic resonance function. My local repair shop has such a piece of equipment and has released a "stuck" handlebar stem for me. It cost me a jar of instant coffee for their tea-fund ! They described what this equipment did, but it was over my head ! Good luck anyway.

peterlester

Dry Ice worked for me after everything else failed.

Remove seat
Break 1 lb of dry ice into small pieces
Put dry ice in a cooler
Cover dry ice with alcohol
Wait for dry ice to stop bubbling / steaming
Turn bike upside down and hold seat post in alcohol for 10 - 15 seconds
Put bike back on it's wheels
Put pipe wrench on seatpost and attempt to turn
Repeat as necessary

Remember to wear heavy gloves and eye protection