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Help !! Sachs Orbit 2 x 6 indicator chain side axle nut needed - 10mm x 1mm

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Help !! Sachs Orbit 2 x 6 indicator chain side axle nut needed - 10mm x 1mm

Old 01-24-11, 02:10 PM
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Unknown Cyclist
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Help !! Sachs Orbit 2 x 6 indicator chain side axle nut needed - 10mm x 1mm

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone know where I can get a 10mm x 1mm pitch nut - suitable for an indicator chain ?

The only ones I can find are imperial or 10.5mm.

I'm in the UK.

Any help gratefully received.

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Old 01-24-11, 06:37 PM
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These people say they have m10x1.0 nuts.
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Old 01-24-11, 06:53 PM
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I think Unknown is talking about a nut like on a Sturmey Archer hub.

you may have to buy a standard style 10x1.0 nut and a 1.5 sturmey and the find a tinkerer to make what you need
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Old 01-24-11, 07:05 PM
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10x1M is a standard thread size for RD threaded mounts, some of which have
backing nuts. It was also the standard size for threaded rear axles of yester
year when sealed bearings were rare and threaded cones and nuts were all
10x1M in size. These would all be fairly thin, under 3mm thick in hex form,
cones thicker of course. An older bike shop may have a box of spares stashed
from that era. www.twowheelsgood.co.uk was mentioned as a source of 2x6
and 3x7 Sachs gear nuts, and they mentioned the really odd 10.5M nut.
Standard nuts such as the source mentioned in prior post are going to be thicker
than hub nuts. You will need to determine how thick the nut must be or if it
is a non standard form factor. A removed or spare RD mount from bikes that
use these as 'breakaways' to save the CF frames could be reshaped, but these
are soft aluminum with limited strength.
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Old 01-24-11, 07:11 PM
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M10x1 is the threading for almost all rear axles so any locknut would have that thread. Shimano hubs are still cup and cone so the locknut from any of them would fit. I expect any LBS has a box of spares.
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Old 01-25-11, 01:22 PM
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Defining the requirement more

I understand what is being asked for here, but unfortunately can't actually help with a source.

If you look at the cut-away picture below, the nut required is that on the right hand axle (the other nut is any standard M10 x 1 axle nut).



The axle has an indicator chain running through it to operate the gear change. To guide the chain the nut must have a smaller diameter on the outside, which can be seen in the image. Also visible is the radius (also required) on the outside to assist the chain in turning 90 to go forward to the gear change cable.

Unfortunately it appears all Sturmey Archer hubs are imperial, either 3/8" or 13/32". Most metric hubs are now M10.5 x 1 (which seems to be the current hub gear standard) but not many of them use indicator chains.

Good luck in the search
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Old 01-25-11, 01:30 PM
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Had that picture in the back of my mind, thinking back to my Hercules 3 spd which had a nut like that, cerca 1954 maybe, the indicator chain being the
trigger.
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Old 01-25-11, 01:55 PM
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https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sturmey-a...646-prod19212/

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brompton-...gra-prod13621/


You should see, these sit over the axle-nut and, and have a roller
for the indicator chain to change direction.

that may let you adapt to the situation.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-25-11 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 01-26-11, 02:15 PM
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I note that the OP says thatthis is to fit a Sachs Orbit. That is old enough Sachs so the axle threading in question may well NOT be 10mm. Most older Sachs hubs and still SRAM T3, P5 and S7 hubs, which are basically older Sachs designs, use what is listed as a "FG 10.5" axle threading and nuts. This is per the 2010 SRAM IGH technical manula information. FG nuts were a special German cycle industry thread size per what I have read.

What the OP probably needs is a current SRAM T3 or old Sachs Torpedo right side axle nut to get the correct threading. 10mm, the old FG 10.5 and Shimano IGH axle nuts are all different enough threading so they are not interchangeable. Close but no cigar!
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Old 01-26-11, 03:16 PM
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Guess again

Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
What the OP probably needs is a current SRAM T3 or old Sachs Torpedo right side axle nut to get the correct threading. 10mm, the old FG 10.5 and Shimano IGH axle nuts are all different enough threading so they are not interchangeable. Close but no cigar!
Unfortunately tatfiend you are wrong, the Sachs Orbit is a M10 x 1 thread as I know that he tried a SRAM T3 nut on the shaft and it was very loose. I also know that he tried a standard M10 x 1 axle nit on the shaft and it is a perfect fit and one will be used for the non-indicator chain side.

I looked back at the SRAM technical manuals back to 1999 and all the SRAM hubs, i.e. those since the Sachs Orbit 2x6 hub, used 10.5mm axles.

What fietsbob suggested is a good idea and would do the job, but I don't think they are as robust as a steel lead-out nut. I know the bike the hub's for is a MTB folder and the indicator chain is on the inside of the fold and will potentially be hit by the front forks. Will those plastic pulley roller guides withstand that abuse for long?

Ideally what is required is an M10 x 1 indicator nut.

Last edited by BertieB; 01-27-11 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 01-26-11, 06:37 PM
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There are no nuts in doughnuts.....

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions and respectfully point out that the title says '10mm x 1mm'.

Yes, I have tried a 10.5mm nut and it's far too loose to even tighten down.

A nut similar to the traditional sturmey archer nut, but with the correct thread for the axle would be ideal.

Any ideas anyone ?
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Old 01-26-11, 07:49 PM
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Calling SJS is worth a moment on the phone, or Email them..
would they be durable?
derailleurs are not durable if you crash on them ,
so bypassing the practical in quest of the perfect ..

Normal shop type kludge: You could get a Sturmey indicator nut ,
braze over the threads,
then re thread them with a 10x1 tap.

I have a short indicator nut made to go on top of a separate
Nut to secure the hub to the frame
there are sram/sachs hubs used in Mk 3 Bromptons,

same thing, nut holds the hub, in Bromptons case
a washer holds the chain tensioner assembly by the second indicator nut
which is not really needing to be holding the hub to the frame.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-26-11 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 01-26-11, 08:03 PM
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8 time zones west, I have another Orbit hub, with a drum brake in a box..
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Old 01-27-11, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
8 time zones west, I have another Orbit hub, with a drum brake in a box..
Hi Fietsbob,

That's very generous of you, PM with my address on it's way.....

Can I at least cover the postage ?

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Old 01-27-11, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
same thing, nut holds the hub, in Bromptons case
a washer holds the chain tensioner assembly by the second indicator nut
which is not really needing to be holding the hub to the frame.
I really can't understand what you're taking about here. Can you provide a picture?
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Old 01-27-11, 12:31 PM
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Brompton has an exploded diagram on their website, Bertie, as part of their parts numbering explanation. PDF download .

Yea West US to UK is not going to be cheap for postage ..
would shift the whole hub, not a few small parts rendering the rest useless.
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Old 01-27-11, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BertieB View Post
Unfortunately tatfiend you are wrong, the Sachs Orbit is a M10 x 1 thread as I know that he tried a SRAM T3 nut on the shaft and it was very loose. I also know that he tried a standard M10 x 1 axle nit on the shaft and it is a perfect fit and one will be used for the non-indicator chain side.

I looked back at the SRAM technical manuals back to 1999 and all the SRAM hubs, i.e. those since the Sachs Orbit 2x6 hub, used 10.5mm axles.

What fietsbob suggested is a good idea and would do the job, but I don't think they are as robust as a steel lead-out nut. I know the bike the hub's for is a MTB folder and the indicator chain is on the inside of the fold and will potentially be hit by the front forks. Will those plastic pulley roller guides withstand that abuse for long?

Ideally what is required is an M10 x 1 indicator nut.
Ok I am wrong about the Orbit and stand corrected but so are you about hubs designed under SRAM. The only two IGH hubs which have been totally designed under SRAM I believe have 10mm axles, the iM3 and iM9. Check your manuals on that, I did. The other current hubs are all of Sachs origin though design changes have been made under SRAM such as S7 internal ratios. I have a couple of older Sachs Torpedo Derigang hubs, made before the SRAM takeover, and they are FG 10.5 axle nuts.

For some reason apparently Sachs made the Orbit indicator side axle threading 10mm, different than their other hubs at the time. That appears to make the needed nut practically a collectors item with no current equivalent.
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Old 01-27-11, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Yea West US to UK is not going to be cheap for postage ..
would shift the whole hub, not a few small parts rendering the rest useless.
Which hub is it ?

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Old 01-27-11, 04:34 PM
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Orbit 6 x 2 with a drum brake built in. laced up and used for a while 13 -32 cog cluster ,
not really a cassette, but the body is part of the hub, not a screw off freewheel..

Will trade for a liter tin of Rohloff all season oil ..
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Old 01-27-11, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Will trade for a liter tin of Rohloff all season oil ..
Just buy some low viscocity mineral oil ffs.

There's nothing special about "Rohloff all season oil" other than the price......
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Old 01-27-11, 05:35 PM
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You got independent testing to refer me to. ?

the stuff I get in the little vials adds Molybdenum powder which is another lubricant material.
buffers the gears banging into each other..
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Old 01-28-11, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
the stuff I get in the little vials adds Molybdenum powder which is another lubricant material.
buffers the gears banging into each other..
From the diagrams I've seen and the nifty Rohloff (tm) cutaway video I've seen the gears all appear to be constant mesh.

Constant mesh gears aren't likely to be banging into each other.....
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Old 01-28-11, 12:19 PM
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A modest controversy over terms here ... not all your teeth of a planetary gear, touch all the time,
like a a 60 tooth annular gear , and a 20 tooth planetary rotating inside it.
now 60 teeth in a 60 tooth , would be more a splined connection , than a gear ratio,
but it would be constantly meshed.

I'm discussing just getting another maintainence oil change kit with another dealer in an neighboring state's largest metropolitan area. apparently I should just buy the whole kit, including the fill screw.
cleaning oil , draining, and then filling with the 'all season' stuff..

since I just commute a few miles into town center and back ,

rather than trying to best the circum-cycling around the world record of someone half my age..

My miles per month is not impressive..
was thinking of topping off
the hub to make up for seepage past the seals ..
10 ml out of the 25 of a full change.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-28-11 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01-28-11, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
My miles per month is not impressive..
was thinking of topping off
the hub to make up for seepage past the seals ..
10 ml out of the 25 of a full change.
Well, I'd go careful there.

The hub doesn't need much oil in it and an extra 10ml might be too much.

You don't need to put 25ml in for an oil change anyway.

TBH the whole point of an oil change is to flush particles out - diluting contaminated oil won't - in any way - reduce the amount of unwanted particles in the oil.

Equally, not flushing it will leave more than a desirable amount of undesirables in the hub.

Compromise - flush it out then refill but only put 1/2 the 25ml of fresh oil in and don't buy drain plugs that you don't need.......

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