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Shimano 600 Crank with 10 speed cassette

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Shimano 600 Crank with 10 speed cassette

Old 02-12-11, 06:09 PM
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mbusha
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Shimano 600 Crank with 10 speed cassette

I'm swapping out some components on an older trek I have, and have been having some issues getting the front derailleur correctly adjusted. Originally, the drive train was all Shimano 600, with a standard double crank and 8 speed cassette. I swapped in some newer Rival components I had for the rear derailleur, cassette, and shifters, leaving the old 600 crank and FD. However, I can't seem to get a smooth shift in the front. When shifting from the small to large chain ring, the chain really wants to slip off to the outside of the crankset, even when the stop is set so that there's no way the derailleur is able to push it that far out (i.e., the FD is just barely able to move over enough to push push the chain onto the bigger ring and won't actually touch the inside of the chain once it's in that gear). Shifting to the smaller chainring seems to work without any problems.

I had thought there shouldn't be any incompatibility issues with this setup, but is there something I'm missing? Does the spacing between the chainrings differ for 8sp and 10sp components? Or an issue with the pull on the rival derailleurs? Also, looking more closely at the crank, there may be some warping, since the big chainring seems to "wobble" in and out slightly as I look down at it from above and spin the crank. Could this be causing issues with the shifting?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-12-11, 09:12 PM
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Burton
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Yeah - I can see where that would be more than a little annoying!

Personally I hate mixing drivetrain components because all too often something gets overlooked and I for one find it hard to keep on top of all the possible little pitfalls - life`s too short.

So at this point if I understand you correctly, you have a 10sd SRAM cassette, a SRAM rear derailleur and SRAM shifters for both the front and rear derailleurs.

If I understand you correctly - that leaves you with a Shimano 600 Ultegra (because you mentioned 8sp) crankset with a double chainring originally 8sd and a Shimano 600 Ultegra front delailleur.

What about the chain? You obviously had to upgrade that to go to a 10sd cassette. What brand is it?

So regarding the chainrings: Yeah - apparently the chainrings on a 10sd system are slightly different but that doesn`t mean a whole new crankset. Shimano recommends upgrading at least the inner ring, but personally if you have a SRAM cassette at the back, I`d change both chainrings to SRAM 10sd as well and run a SRAM chain on the whole thing.

That leaves you with just a Shimano 600 front derailleur which shouldn`t be an issue, but you could also sell that off and put on a SRAM at some point. I have the feeling you have a preference for that stuff. Personally I`m still happy with my own Shimano 600 stuff.

Don`t know if that was any help but maybe someone else has another suggestion.
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Old 02-12-11, 11:20 PM
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You will want to change the FD to a 10 speed version (Sram would be best because you are using Sram shifters). The shifting will also be enhanced by going to any 10 speed crank. By the time you buy chainrings you will be nearing the cost of a low end Shimano crank & BB. Go ahead and complete the whole transmission to 10 speed. The end result will be sweet flawless shifting.
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Old 02-13-11, 12:26 AM
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I really hate the word `compatable`

Originally Posted by TLCFORBIKES View Post
You will want to change the FD to a 10 speed version (Sram would be best because you are using Sram shifters). The shifting will also be enhanced by going to any 10 speed crank. By the time you buy chainrings you will be nearing the cost of a low end Shimano crank & BB. Go ahead and complete the whole transmission to 10 speed. The end result will be sweet flawless shifting.
Lets face it. Just because a married couple aren`t divorced yet doesn`t mean they`re happy living together.

And both Shimano and SRAM have proprietary rights on their chainring tooth profiles, ramping systems and chain profiles. And in my personal experience there`s a difference between `compatible` and `made for each other`. But there need to be a reasonable limit too.

So I really don`t have all the details on everything, but in this particular case I have swapped out a Shimano 600 crankset for a SRAM Truvative GXP because I was curious is I would notice any difference with an external bearing set-up.

The first thing I picked out was the difference in the tooth profiling and the thicknesses of the chainrings which would result in the chainrings being spaced closer together. So I swapped over the chainrings and am running Shimano chainrings on a SRAM BBand spider with a Shimano chain and Shimano rear cassette. Didn`t even have to adjust the shifter afterwards.

Problem is - I don`t see any advantage in the external bearings and the 600 axle, bearings and cups and arms are in excellent shape so - I don`t think I gained anything other than a lesson.

And as far as I know, SRAM chainrings should be $30 to $45 and will go right on that existing 600 BB set-up. And according to SRAM, the front derailleur isn`t critical, but matching the cassette, chain and chainrings is recommended.

Sometimes I don`t know what to believe anymore. I`m going out for coffee.
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Old 02-13-11, 03:52 AM
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Thanks for your comments -- I should have mentioned, bu I did switch to a SRAM 10 speed chain as well. Currently, my setup is: SRAM Rivsal chain, rear deurailleur, chan, and shifters; Shimano 600 crank (previously setup for 8-speed) + FD.

Sounds like the chainrings are the first thing to check. I'll head down to my LBS to see what I can pick up today and try putting those on the existing cranks.
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Old 02-13-11, 02:43 PM
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if you look closely, you'll find the old 6/7/8sp chains had pins that stuck out. these are what caught on the chain rings and climbed to the larger ring. with the 9/10sp chain, there are no pins sticking out. the new chain rings added ramps and pins to grab the sides of the chain to enable it to shift well. all you really need to do is replace the outer chainring with a modern ramped/pinned one. i did this on an old 7sp dura-ace and it shifts better than ever now. you can pick up a nice FSA outer ring cheap too.
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Old 02-13-11, 11:40 PM
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I'd try clamping the cable on the FD under the pinch bolt instead of over it, in order to reduce its throw.

Might sort it.
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Old 02-15-11, 08:26 AM
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Thanks for all your suggestions. Before naking any further changes to the bike, I managed to adjust the FD to the point where it would shift up without problem, but would skate on the inner ring when I shifted to the smaller chainring if I was in one of the ~4 smallest sprockets in the back. I wound up just changing out the inner chainring for a 10-speed one (which is designed to fix just this problem by moving the teeth slightly closer to the big chainring). Now everything shifts just as smoothly as it did in the 8-speed configuration.

Thanks for all your help. I did the switch in the first place to try out the 32-tooth Rival cassette as a touring setup -- so far it seems to work great!
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