Raising Handlebars
 

All the bikes I've owned have had quill stems. My wife is considering getting this new bike:

http://images.craigslist.org/3n03m93...6a824614d9.jpg

and I know that she will want to have the handlebars at about the same height as the saddle. I know nothing about threadless stems. Would I have trouble raising it several inches?

Also, concerning terminology: Which is called the "stem" on a threadless system, the part that goes in the steerer tube, the part that clamps onto the handlebars, or both??

Thanks,

Al

Is that the saddle height as adjusted for your wife? If so, then not sure you can get the bars even and might want to look for a different bike.

If the saddle height is not set for her, then set that first.

Yes, stem is the correct term for the part connecting the bars to the steerer tube of the fork.

On the stem, examine the stem to see if is an angled stem and if it is installed with angle going down. If so, then flip it so it angles up. See if this gets her bars at the right height.

Second move would be to buy either an adjustable angle stem or buy a stem with more angle than the current stem.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...-cpc-_-product

On that bike, with that stem, the bars are already as high as they can go. You can't go higher because the stem is already at the top of the fork. If the stem is angled down (hard to tell from the photo) you could get a bit more rise by inverting it, but since it's a small angle (if any) inversion won't buy you much.

However, there are stems that have different angles. If, for example, you were to get a 17° (73°) stem and mount it angled up it would rise at about 34° raising the bars by roughly 5mm for every 10mm of extension.

Offhand I don't know of stock stems with steeper angles but there probably are some out there, or you could have a builder make you a custom stem with a high rise ratio.

Is getting a racing bike her decision Or yours?

Is such a small frame needed to get the reach to the bars right? is that still just the sellers picture?

Ask at the bike dealer about buying a new fork, and leave the [steel only] steerer tube un cut down.
common that its 300mm long.
is one way to get the bars up. and fill in the gap under the stem with spacers
There's clamp on stem raisers and 40 degree up, [measured angle in the stem]
angled stem [40+17 makes it 57 degrees up on the bike.. ]

This might work. I helped a friend put one on his Madone. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...oductId=141838

+1 on the idea that if she needs that much saddle height, or even close to it, then you're not going to get there. She needs to sit on the bike with the saddle adjusted to her and then look at the stem situation. By using different angles of stems you can raise the bars somewhat but there's a limit. And as shown in that picture there's just no good way to raise the bars up that high. And neither should you since it would clearly be a bad frame fit by anyone's interpretation. Using strongly angled stems you'd be able to raise the bars about an inch and a half.

Before anyone jumps in and mentions that there are threadless steerer extensions available I'll say that they are a last resort and more appropriate to cruiser bikes for casual riding and have no proper place on a performance bicycle. If you find you can't alter the fit by only using the existing spacers and replacement angled stems then the frame is not even close to being a proper fit.

Quill stems can give you a lot more height latitude than threadless stems and some very long quills are available. The stem riser davidad linked to will extend a threadless steerer but I'd be VERY leary of using it on a carbon steerer.

Here are links to adjustable threadless stems that will allow a 45° up-angle. These things are heavy and require either 25.4 mm or 25.8 mm (same as 26.0) bars, not the more current 31.8 mm.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...5_10000_202442
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...1_10000_202439

I agree that if the bike you show is adjusted anywhere near your wife's required saddle height, getting the bars to saddle height will be nearly impossible. You either need a different frame size or a different bike.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...5_10000_202442

Yup - couldn`t agree more!

Thanks for the advice.

Well, we got the bike ($360 from craigslist).

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a39...oreCleanup.jpg

I understand your arguments, and may have screwed up, but I'm going to try a few options. If I can raise the handlebars by about 3 inches, then I can duplicate the fit of her current bike, with which she is very comfortable.

http://bike.com/ritchey-adjustable-r...=GoogleProduct

Although the fork is carbon, the steerer tube seems to be metal. The handlebars are 31.8 mm.

The current stem is angled down, and is very close to 90 degrees.

Check my math, if I were to get this adjustable stem, the handlebars would go up by a maximum of about 120 mm / 1.414 =84.9 mm = 3.34 inches.

Next option would be to determine the best stem angle/length, and buy it.

Another would be to first buy that Delta stem riser, and go from there.

If all else fails, I clean up this Specialized Allez, sell it, and she goes back to her original bike.


Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Nice bike!

Looks like a situation where the original owner had the fork cut to his size and left no room for vertical height adjustment. I like to leave an inch above the steering stem myself simply because it leaves open more possibilities for different headsets and more flexibility if resale is of interest.

A sharply angled steering stem is probably your best bet. The adjustable stems like the one you referenced are not only heavy - they tend to develop play over time and the bar flex becomes increasingly noticable. If you can get a rigid one to start off with that would be ideal.

There are two big issues with tube extenders on threadless forks. The wall thickness of a threadless steel fork tube for example, is about 45% thinner than an equivalent threaded steel fork tube. Which means its lighter but will support less stress along an unsupported length. So normally there are height restrictions on threadless fork tubes of about 40mm from the top of the headset to the bottom of the steering tube. Adding a tube extender changes things because the inner diameter of the exterder is larger, but the height puts more forces on the fork tube through twisting leverage than is recommended.

The other issue is that due to the design of an extender - you`ll probably be stuck with a minimum of 4 inches of additional height even if you only want 3 inches. Best to take the bike to a shop and try the pieces for visual effect right in the shop.

Likely someone there can also help confirm the correct fit and adjustment of the bike for your wife at the same time.

Wouldn't that be true no matter how I increase the height? IOW, for a given handlebar position, whether achieved with a sharply angled stem or a tube extender, I'd figure that the forces would be the same (Not arguing, just trying to understand).

My searches have shown that a lot of people have gone through this process. Here's a great chart I've found:

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

BBB has an internal stem Riser part # BHP-21, as an aluminum Quill it will reinforce the steerer tube,
somewhat .. the top cap still does the headset pre-load thru the spacers beneath it
US distributors : Bike Mine In OKC, I got mine thru R&E in Seattle,
but any shop that has or will open a Bike Mine parts distributor's account
can order it..

I expect the steerer tube is aluminum on a CF fork as cutting grams sells
to the weight, less = better, crowd.
Magnet will tell of course..

You got the chart to reference already, and I'm just eyeballing that as maybe a 90mm stem.

If so, an 110mm / 35 degree stem would put the bars just shy of 3" taller and at the exact same reach as a 90mm/-17 degree. Looks like that's probably a 6° or maybe 10, so the change should be right around 3". Oops, NM. I was counting from the -17. So yeah, still shy of 3", but just shy.

There are a couple of different vendors to choose from to get that part.

Here's one.

You're in luck that you've a 31.8 clamp bar to work with, which gives you lots of MTB stem options.

In those photos is the seat adjusted to the height at which she will ride it? Because if she wants it lower than it is in the photos, your life just got a lot easier.

As mentioned because it's a 31.8 bar you have lots of MTB stem options. Most shops will allow you to bring the bike in and mount up a new stem and go for a ride. If it's not right they'll swap the stem out for different ones until you're happy. I'd try that out first before I were to go with the adjustable option. Besides, the fixed stem will be lighter by a lot and frankly just look less kludgey.

If you go for the highest angle you can in the length she needs to fit then if it proves to come out a hair TOO high you can always shift around the spacers from below to above. And if the spacers on it now are too wide then you can switch out one of the wide spacers for multiple small ones that achieve the same stack height. So at some point it'll fit well to within a couple of mm's

FWIW, I'm not a fan of forcing a fit, of a bike which isn't within the range of a good fit already. Nor am I a fan of excessive stem height over the headset, and this one is at what I consider the limit (personal opinion and bias here). If you need another three inches in height, the bike is too small, and there may also be leverage/strength issues with the steering column, though unless she's a hill climbing animal I wouldn't be worried.

You seem to have gotten a great bargain on this bike, and rather than spending dough trying to force a fit, I'd put some sweat equity into it, clean and fix it up and try to sell it at a profit. Then use the dough to get her a bike that fits her properly. There are so many good value used bikes out there that it shouldn't be difficult.

Your logic is right on! The thing is - if you only use the original fork, standard steering stems and follow the manufacturers guidelines - there`s a predetermined limit you can achieve.

As soon as you start using extenders - you can achieve more height and bypass those limits. The internal gooseneck style extender will definately be a better option than the extenders that clamp over the tube. It`ll probably let you add less height.

In terms of the weight issue, this adjustable stem

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...hL._AA300_.jpg

only weighs 220 g, or only about 80 g (3 oz) more than some expensive carbon stems.

At this point I'm leaning towards that solution. I have an adjustable stem on my bike, and I like the ability to experiment with different positions.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a39...ithNewStem.jpg

Upate
 

Here it is with the new stem installed:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a39.../AllezSide.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a39...earQuarter.jpg

Thanks for all the advice. I think this is going to work well. The fit matches her old bike, and she was happy with that. I don't think this will put much stress on the steerer.

This is with the seat height the way she wants it (matches old bike).

If this works out, we'll have gotten a bike that's as good as new for $360.