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Campagnolo 8 speed dilemma

Old 03-13-11, 12:35 PM
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h_curtis
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Campagnolo 8 speed dilemma

I have an older bike that has Campagnolo 8 speed record (carbon) and my rear shifter isn't holding gear. I tried to have it fixed at the LBS, but they didn't get the job done. I suspect a cracked housing. I am not sure what to do with this? I already spent money trying to fix this once and now thinking about sending it all the way out to Seattle to Branford Bikes to see if they can fix it. I am a little concerned in doing so because I asked them if they could make sure it holds gear prior to sending it back to me and their response was a roundabout no. I asked, can't you just test to see if it holds gear? They seemed to not understand. I am a handy person, but no certified Camagnolo mechanic and even I know how to test if it holds gear. That is VERY easy to do. I don't really want to buy a whole new drivetrain and fall into this silly 11 speed stuff that makes no sense to me. 8 is more than enough and this did last a very long time.

Anyone have any advice? I wish someone had an NOS shifter for sale somewhere, but I have had no luck in that either. Buying a used one may also be a dead end if it has the same issues.

Thanks
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Old 03-13-11, 12:54 PM
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I don't know why the first shop couldn't fix it. Correct that, not all shops are familiar with ergo service, but they should know whether they can or can't. Ergo lever repair is unbelievably straightforward (I was Campy's east coast service tech for 5 years, until I quit) and your problem is almost certainly because of fatigued latching (G) springs, or a cracked support ring. These are inexpensive replacement parts and there's no adjustment.

I can't understand why Branford is reticent about confirming that their repair will work because if you replace the broken parts it works, there's no halfway.

Send it to Branford, or any qualified shop (I prefer the folks at Yellow Jersey in Madison) and there shouldn't be any problem except if there's more damage - like a cracked body.
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Old 03-13-11, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Ithere shouldn't be any problem except if there's more damage - like a cracked body.
I have a suspicion there is a cracked body because the spring was supposedly changed. What can be done then? I believe Branford might have those parts. I will call Yellow Jersey on Monday as well. Maybe you have a NOS laying around.
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Old 03-13-11, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I have a suspicion there is a cracked body because the spring was supposedly changed. What can be done then? I believe Branford might have those parts. I will call Yellow Jersey on Monday as well. Maybe you have a NOS laying around.
I've never heard of a cracked body.

The G-spring carrier breaks (EC-RE011, discontinued and I have no idea if you can just cut the clock spring post off a newer one because the posts which fit in the shifter body are different looking) but they usually still hold gear after that happens (I've been riding a broken one for months).

Take a look at the first generation manual https://www.campyonly.com/howto/ergotech.html, get a pair of EC-RE209 G-springs, buy a new Campagnolo inner cable (they usually have broken strands by the time you need new G-springs; and while Shimano cables are close the end is a little bigger and will get stuck), remember that the first generation right hand lever is held together by a left handed screw, and see what's going on in there. I've never bothered attaching the lever to a piece of handle bar when working on them as shown in the manual.

You shouldn't have any problems as long as you have enough mechanical aptitude to adjust rear derailleurs (the hardest part) and tape handle bars.
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Old 03-13-11, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I have a suspicion there is a cracked body because the spring was supposedly changed. ...
A cracked body would be visible under the hood, and not automatically cause weak latching. If you replaced the springs it's possible that the spring carrier is cracked. This is an inexpensive part and most of us who service Ergo replace it as well when replacing the springs, because it's better to do so than to look inept or redo the job if it cracks afterward.
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Old 03-13-11, 01:46 PM
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If you need Campag parts check UK ebay. And www.campyonly.com
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Old 03-16-11, 08:49 AM
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Everything on this shifter seems okay and the springs look new because they are black and show no wear. My shifter for the front derailleur sure sounds more stout than the shifter for my rear. I called Yellow Jersey and they said that part with the teeth inside is made of anodized steel and never wears out. I have to question that a little considering the difference in the two shifters. I suppose I could spread the tiny springs a little to add more friction, but don't want to mess things up.

On another note, getting the tension spring that will keep pressure on the thumb lever is one heck of a tough thing to get in place. Does anyone know of any tricks to get that in place, or am I just muscling it in there. When I do that the spring is winding inward (compressing), correct? Hope I am going the correct way on that.
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Old 03-16-11, 09:17 AM
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Question one. Left shifter clicks are lighter than right ones on 8s shifters because the right detents on the cam are deeper, making a louder sound when the springs click home.

There's sort of a trick to getting the thumb lever home against the spring, but it's mostly brute strength. Bring the lever as far high left on the lever body and slide it in using the corner of the body and levering the spring out of the way as you go. And yes, you want to be tightening the coil on the spring as you go in.
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Old 02-19-22, 04:09 PM
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8sp Campagnolo modification

Hi from Australia, I have an odd request and your time as a Campagnolo Tech would be very helpful, I want to use my 8 Speed Campagnolo Record Brifter and an 8 Speed Campagnolo Screw On Cluster with a 10sp Carbon Derailleur, I know the spacings are not correct but do you have a suggestion as to how this could be achieved, you can write direct to powerclocks@hotmail.com if this will take some explaining. Your time to reply is appreciated.
Graeme

Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I don't know why the first shop couldn't fix it. Correct that, not all shops are familiar with ergo service, but they should know whether they can or can't. Ergo lever repair is unbelievably straightforward (I was Campy's east coast service tech for 5 years, until I quit) and your problem is almost certainly because of fatigued latching (G) springs, or a cracked support ring. These are inexpensive replacement parts and there's no adjustment.

I can't understand why Branford is reticent about confirming that their repair will work because if you replace the broken parts it works, there's no halfway.

Send it to Branford, or any qualified shop (I prefer the folks at Yellow Jersey in Madison) and there shouldn't be any problem except if there's more damage - like a cracked body.
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Old 02-19-22, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by powerclocks View Post
Hi from Australia, I have an odd request and your time as a Campagnolo Tech would be very helpful, I want to use my 8 Speed Campagnolo Record Brifter and an 8 Speed Campagnolo Screw On Cluster with a 10sp Carbon Derailleur, I know the spacings are not correct but do you have a suggestion as to how this could be achieved, you can write direct to powerclocks@hotmail.com if this will take some explaining. Your time to reply is appreciated.
Graeme
Campagnolo never made an 8-speed "Screw On Cluster", by which I assume you mean a freewheel. On the minuscule chance you have some kind of unreleased prototype from the bowels of Vicenza, then you should sell it and with the proceeds buy a Colnago with the latest Campy 12-speed EPS system.

A 10-speed Campy rear derailleur (any) will not index correctly with 8-speed Ergopower (any) shifters, and it is not a matter of the "spacings". The cable pull of the shifter does not match the actuation ratio of the rear derailleur. And there is also the matter of the springs in the rear derailleur: a RD designed for Powershift will not work well with Ultrashift shifters due to the different spring strength requirements.
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Old 02-19-22, 04:40 PM
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Cannot be made of 'anodized' steel ....'dichromate' colored steel = yes
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Old 02-19-22, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I have an older bike that has Campagnolo 8 speed record (carbon) and my rear shifter isn't holding gear. I tried to have it fixed at the LBS, but they didn't get the job done. I suspect a cracked housing. I am not sure what to do with this? I already spent money trying to fix this once and now thinking about sending it all the way out to Seattle to Branford Bikes to see if they can fix it. I am a little concerned in doing so because I asked them if they could make sure it holds gear prior to sending it back to me and their response was a roundabout no. I asked, can't you just test to see if it holds gear? They seemed to not understand. I am a handy person, but no certified Camagnolo mechanic and even I know how to test if it holds gear. That is VERY easy to do. I don't really want to buy a whole new drivetrain and fall into this silly 11 speed stuff that makes no sense to me. 8 is more than enough and this did last a very long time.

Anyone have any advice? I wish someone had an NOS shifter for sale somewhere, but I have had no luck in that either. Buying a used one may also be a dead end if it has the same issues.

Thanks
I suspect that Branford’s reticence was a case of “what the hell is he asking?” What does “will it hold gear” mean? Branford have rebuilt more Ergos than we’ve had hot dinners - pretty sure they know that if they overhaul it, it’ll work. This isn’t rocket science. Maybe what you should’ve asked them - “do you stand behind the overhaul with a warranty?”
FWIW Branford rebuilt my early-‘00s 10-sp shifters a couple of years ago. They came back within a week working like new

Last edited by Litespud; 02-19-22 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 02-19-22, 07:32 PM
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Wow, what an old thread. I still have my bike with that shifter, but found a shop in Boulder CO that took care of me and knew EVERYTHING about my shifters and my bike. So lucky.Vecchio's is a great bicycle shop that actually understands older Campy. Love this shop. Beware, there are a lot of pretenders out there. My poor shifter went to the NYC area and was local and finally I lucked to and found Vecchio's
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Old 02-19-22, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by powerclocks View Post
Hi from Australia, I have an odd request and your time as a Campagnolo Tech would be very helpful, I want to use my 8 Speed Campagnolo Record Brifter and an 8 Speed Campagnolo Screw On Cluster with a 10sp Carbon Derailleur, I know the spacings are not correct but do you have a suggestion as to how this could be achieved, you can write direct to powerclocks@hotmail.com if this will take some explaining. Your time to reply is appreciated.
Graeme
There is a lot of information about different sprocket spacing and pull ratios on this site:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

The problem you run into is that the pull ratio for Campagnolo was changed mid series of 9-speed from a shift ratio of 1.4 to 1.5. So your 10 speed derailleur expects a 1.5 shift ratio and your 8 speed shifter expects a 1.4 shift ratio.

There is a table suggesting this creates a sprocket pitch of about 5.22mm with the 8-speed Campagnolo at 5.0mm, and the Shimano pitch being 4.8mm.

Say you adjust your derailleur to one of the middle sprockets. Then over 3 or 4 spacers, that will create a difference of about 0.66 to 0.88mm off at the two ends.

That may or may not be within tolerances of your derailleur. But, shifting may not be good at the two ends. That is, of course, assuming you're using an 8 speed Campagnolo CASSETTE.

Could you fix it?

Maybe.

Say you had a Shimano 11 speed freehub.
And, a Shimano 8 speed Cassette (sprocket pitch of 4.8, with a target pitch of 5.22).

You would have about 3mm spacers, and would need about a 3.42mm spacer, which unfortunately NONE of the cassettes used.

However, if you bought seven Shimano 10s spacers at 2.35mm, and seven Shimano 1mm spacers, your total would be 3.35mm spacing, and close enough to your target 3.42mm spacer (tinker around a bit with the first sprocket, perhaps a 7s sprocket).

Your Cassette gets spaced out an extra 0.35mm x 7 = 2.45mm. And it likely would barely fit onto a Shimano 11s freehub.

You could probably do something similar with messing around with different spacers, sprockets, and freehubs with Campagnolo.

I don't know about the spring tension mentioned by @Dave Mayer.
I think people have successfully done some mixing and matching.

For example a new 9s shifter and an old 8s or 9s derailleur to create a 4.36mm shift which is essentially the same as the Shimano 9s 4.35 sprocket pitch.

Last edited by CliffordK; 02-19-22 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 02-22-22, 08:32 AM
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2nd that to Branford bike in Seattle !!!!

Pat is the expert on Campy( especially 8 speed ergo)

I was having issues, and just sent the shifter to him last December.

Had it back in 10 days.

Communication was excellent. Pat is the best !!!! Spoke with him several times !!

I am glad the op found a shop in CO. They are getting harder and harder to find.

The so called " Campy expert" , who I called locally, said they he just sends shifters out to be repaired.

I hope Pat stays there for a very long time
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