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E-bike battery connector burn

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E-bike battery connector burn

Old 03-20-11, 12:51 AM
  #1  
rapattack
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E-bike battery connector burn

Hi this is hard for me to describe but there is a burnt connector on the ebike battery i have. Below are some pics. I noticed a week ago that there was a burn on the bag that holds the battery and then when i opened up the bag i saw that this particular connector didn't have tape over it like the other connectors did. I put some medical tape over it and it seemed that the bike charged better power than before. Not sure if i am right about that. Anyway now today the power seemed pretty crappy so had another look and as you can see the connector looks terrible. The plastic casing has burnt down to the metal parts.
I bought this bike as an ex rental a few months ago.







I am not too bad with wiring things so if it is a simple matter of replacing whatever that connector thing is i am sure i can do it. I am pretty handy for a female he he. Never had an ebike before this so i don't know much about them though. Thanks and i appreciate any advice
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Old 03-20-11, 01:40 AM
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1. Is the battery physically damaged?...sure looks like it has been from the photo.

2. Do you have the proper fuse in place?

No point in fixing a connector until you verify that the battery is fine, a proper fuse is in place and intact, charging is done correctly and that the battery is qualified for the load that is required of it.

=8-)
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Old 03-20-11, 01:54 AM
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Hi the outer plastic of the battery has a burn mark on it but it has not penetrated more than that. Is that what you mean?
Really don't know what a fuse is sorry. I know the term from replacing fuses in fuse boxes for a home but that is all i know about them.
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Old 03-20-11, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Really don't know what a fuse is sorry. I know the term from replacing fuses in fuse boxes for a home but that is all i know about them.
A fuse is a sacrificial "power" restrictor. If the load(motor, lamps etc) is trying to draw more than the source/wiring is meant to handle the fuse is expected to "blow" before anything else takes damage.
There should be a fuse pretty much first thing between the battery and the rest of the bike, as even reasonably small batteries can be quite nasty if there is a short circuit/bad overload.
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Old 03-20-11, 03:25 AM
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thanks

Ok but I don't know what it looks like so I am stumped.
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Old 03-20-11, 03:27 AM
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This is a fuse. A 25 amp one.



Obviously, it's been getting hot... why? Resistance.

I'd say the fuse's connectors became corroded, causing resistance, and thus heat and a corresponding voltage drop. IIRC it's the sort of problem that makes itself worse.

You need to replace the fuse holder (I'd cut a couple of inches off those cables), and that should sort it with a bit of luck.

Oh, and you should prolly get a new fuse, too. It's an automotive type.
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Old 03-20-11, 05:46 AM
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+1 Kimmo.

Dirty connectors are the number one source for problems like yours, rapattack. What you have is simply two female connectors mating with the male connectors on the fuse, not an A+ plan. Have an automotive/motorcycle shop install a proper inline fuse connector and use dielectric grease to prevent corrosion.

Brad
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Old 03-20-11, 06:05 AM
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Kimmo _So by resistance do you mean because previously it didn't have tape on it it to keep it in place so it was maybe bouncing around? Is the thing on the end of the wires that i am calling a connector a fuse? Ah so it is one of these http://imgs.tootoo.com/8f/1c/8f1c1c0...e96632eafc.jpg . Ok i have seen them somewhere. I think maybe even Kmart sells them? Auto repair shops are rare in a city so Kmart would be easier. Ok so if i cut off some wiring how do i connect the wires to the new fuse? What type of tape should i be using to restick the fuse/connector to the battery?

bradtx-yes i do remember the guy at the shop saying when i bought this bike that it might some maintenance or something but it is taking ages for me to learn all this stuff. i didn't own a bike for over 20 years and there is so much more info out there now than then. Trouble is the porch where i keep the bike is very dusty and sooty. I live on a main road and have no option to take the bike indoors. I do have a car cover over the bike now and intend to be better at covering the bike to lengthen the life of it!
OK i don't any motorcycle shops or auto shops near the city so might not be possible plus i don't have any trust that they will be fair on price. I am on a pension and i have heard many times how these people are rip of merchants. Did the guy that made up this battery do a bad job?
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Old 03-20-11, 06:19 AM
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rapattack: I'd suggest replacing the whole assembly with something like this: http://www.powerwerx.com/fuse-holder...-12-gauge.html. Cut out the burned mess and install the new holder with good quality crimp connectors or by soldering with insulating sleeving. A local auto electric shop should do the job inexpensively. If there are other quick-disconnects in the system I'd recommend replacing them with crimped-on Anderson PowerPoles, also available from Powerwerx or others.
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Old 03-20-11, 06:26 AM
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Oh that looks interesting. Where does the red loop attach to or is that just for the picture? I gather the fuse slips into that black plastic part and then it closes?
Oh ok i have the problem of not knowing where a shop is and i have no idea where to get that product. I am in Australia. Hmmmmm so much to learn.
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Old 03-20-11, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Oh that looks interesting. Where does the red loop attach to or is that just for the picture?.
You cut the red loop (wire) strip the ends and connect it to the two wires connected to the your present burnt fuse holder. Connection should be done either by soldering or using an appropriate crimp connector and crimp tool. This is the type of stuff auto sound guys do all the time. They'll have the fuse holders, fuses, crimpers, etc.. so you might try them.

Ham radio operators a bit of an anachronism these days but they are usually adept at such things as well...
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Old 03-20-11, 07:42 AM
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Hmmmm sounds like something i could do. Not sure exactly. Just that in the city you don't find people that are handy. I am the handiest one around. I have a toolbox full of stuff and i am always fixing things. My dad taught me as he is like that(sewing machine mechanic by trade). I live too far from him to get him to help and he has parkinsons now so the hands are not steady. I have heard of crimping tools so i might just ask if i can find some kind of auto place. I can't take the bike to them or the battery as i do not drive a car so everything will have to be verbal.
The other option is that there is a thing called 'bike club' not far from me. i might suss out who knows about ebikes. It is a community thing.
You have given me heaps to start on. Wish i could get this done quick and get back on the bike but i will have to be patient. Thanks!!!
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Old 03-20-11, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Hmmmm sounds like something i could do. Not sure exactly. Just that in the city you don't find people that are handy. I am the handiest one around. I have a toolbox full of stuff and i am always fixing things. My dad taught me as he is like that(sewing machine mechanic by trade). I live too far from him to get him to help and he has parkinsons now so the hands are not steady. I have heard of crimping tools so i might just ask if i can find some kind of auto place. I can't take the bike to them or the battery as i do not drive a car so everything will have to be verbal.
The other option is that there is a thing called 'bike club' not far from me. i might suss out who knows about ebikes. It is a community thing.
You have given me heaps to start on. Wish i could get this done quick and get back on the bike but i will have to be patient. Thanks!!!

Honestly, no offense... but if you don't know what a very basic item like a fuse is, then you'd really be better off getting some hands-on assistance the first time you try any rewiring. The batteries used in e-bikes can dump a huge amount of current in a very short period of time - enough to cause the battery to out-gas violently, or even explode.

Any mis-wiring that ends up in a potential short circuit - especially in an improperly fused system - is bad news all around.
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Old 03-20-11, 12:18 PM
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Judging from that first photo...adjacent to the burn damage I see impact damage. Impact damage often = cell damage which = reduced voltage and amp output under the same load requirement.

As suggested by mulveyr - you need to take this by an e-bike mechanic who is also familiar with BASIC ELECTRONICS to do the following:

1. Test the battery.
2. Check for fuse and replace or add if necessary.
3. Repair the wiring and connector.
4. Test the entire circuit and the load (what the motor draws) and compare with the battery rating.
5. If the current battery is not rated for #4, provision the correct battery or batteries for you.

The above is not for amateurs...

=8-)
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Old 03-20-11, 06:07 PM
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Pretty sure that's just a bit of melting. Around it is the residue from a patch of tape that was holding the fuse there.

Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Just that in the city you don't find people that are handy.
You say some strange stuff... I bet there are at least half a dozen folks in your street that would consider this a no-brainer.

Also, any auto parts joint like Bursons, Repco, etc will have such fuses, as will any car sound mob like Strathfield, JBs, and so on. You can prolly even find the fuses and holders in the auto section at K-mart.
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Old 03-20-11, 08:18 PM
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Right above the indented "1". Assuming that's the plastic casing for the battery - that sure looks like something sharp impacted the battery sometime in the past - possibly during a bike fall or something.

=8-)
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Old 03-20-11, 08:37 PM
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If this was as the OP stated, a rental bike - then the outfit she bought it from should have someone on staff trained in battery maintenaince and electrical trouble shooting. This isn`t stuff she should be doing herself.

Next - if this is a recent purchace it should be covered by a 30 or 60 day warranty so unless for some reason the warranty has expired - she shouldn`t HAVE to do any of this herself.

No point making this any more complicated than it has to be.
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Old 03-20-11, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Right above the indented "1". Assuming that's the plastic casing for the battery - that sure looks like something sharp impacted the battery sometime in the past - possibly during a bike fall or something.

=8-)
Looks to me like the sort of pattern formed by plastic having flowed into the mould... not an uncommon sight with the more utilitarian plastics.
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Old 03-21-11, 06:24 AM
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Ok

OK well i got everything i need i think from K-mart. Seriously i went to several hardware stores and other types of shops and they had nothing. K-mart had the last fuse and i got an electronic test kit. I have needed one for ages.
I do fix computers but i am amateur level so maybe you guys underestimate me. This is just such a new area so there is some trepidation. I don't know anything to do with cars either. Everything else i have dabbled in like fixing tv's and stereos.
In the test kit there are crimpers so i am glad i got that.
Those other stores mentioned are no where near me. I would have to carry the battery on buses and trains and that is impossible with a still repairing torn tendon shoulder and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Yes it is definately only cosmetic the burn mark on the battery itself. Looks worse in the pic.

My other question is. There are many of these things taped onto the battery and they have a specific tape on them. Can i use anything? Looks like some type of medical tape.

Yep it is a an ex-rental bike i bought and i got a months warranty. I am over that time period. The guy was always hard to get a hold of that ran the bike shop and yes he is the one that made up the battery. He said the bikes themselves were assembled in Melbourne. I am in Sydney. This is a bike that he said was 1.5 years old. His newer bikes(he also sells ebikes) were super looking beasts compared with mine. It is a great working bike. Gets me around heaps.

The other reason ofcourse i want to do this myself is that money is a huge issue. It was an investment for me as a disability pensioner to get this bike. I can't afford to keep running into shops. The huge downside is that everything or anyone mechanical does not live in a city. Believe me in my building there are drunks, junkies, sick people, old people etc. Everyone calls me up around here to have their computers looked at!!!!

mrrabbit-there has been one accident but there was no impact to the battery that day. Believe me it is just a surface burn where the connector was taped to the battery.

Oh i did email the bike club guys that are a few kilometers from where i live so i am hoping there is someone amongst them that knows ebikes. Trouble is getting the bike there. Bike Club is a nice bunch of community people that gets together once a week but it is far to walk a bike there and i pass many bike thieves on the way. He he there are a few in my building too. Seems to be the favourite mode of transport for junkies.
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Old 03-21-11, 08:14 AM
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Anything is better than nothing, but the right stuff will win out in the end. Even the specific insulating/electrician's tape intended for the purpose has its shortcomings. If I can I prefer to use heat shrink tubing. For most tapes the adhesive begins to smear after awhile(goes faster if it's warm) at which the tape can unravel. Crimp + heat shrink will perform rather well even in situations where corrosion is an issue.

You said "There are many of these things taped onto the battery". which worries me a bit. That's not really the way to do it. Running something put together by leftovers is one thing, but selling it on is something completely different.
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Old 03-21-11, 08:26 AM
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Yes i am sure but i have really not much choice. Yes i noticed that some of the other connectors get a bit loose maybe because the tape is not so good.
Oh so you think they did a crap job of this bikes battery? Maybe i should take a photo of the whole things to show you.
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Old 03-21-11, 01:15 PM
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OK, that's certainly not the tidiest installation I've seen. You have 3 batteries hooked up in serial. The odd thing is that the melted fuse seems to be sitting between 2 of the cells. Electrically it's same difference, but not really the done thing. Counting from above your white patches cover:
1-top battery positive terminal
2-top battery negative terminal hooked to output line
3-middle battery negative terminal hooked to top battery positive terminal
4-middle battery positíve terminal hooked to lower battery negative terminal via fuse
5- lower battery positive hooked to output line
6-lower battery negative hooked to middle battery positive via fuse
Don't think that's a surgical tape. There's a high grade textile tape that looks like that. protecting the terminals from shorting is vital. unless there's a built in fuse in the battery you're looking at a serious event. battery destruction likely. You might pull them off and simply create a puddle of hotglue as cover instead.
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Old 03-21-11, 09:44 PM
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Oh ok. All that is beyond me. Um what did you mean by the last sentence?
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Old 03-21-11, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
OK, that's certainly not the tidiest installation I've seen. You have 3 batteries hooked up in serial. The odd thing is that the melted fuse seems to be sitting between 2 of the cells. Electrically it's same difference, but not really the done thing. Counting from above your white patches cover:
1-top battery positive terminal
2-top battery negative terminal hooked to output line
3-middle battery negative terminal hooked to top battery positive terminal
4-middle battery positíve terminal hooked to lower battery negative terminal via fuse
5- lower battery positive hooked to output line
6-lower battery negative hooked to middle battery positive via fuse
Don't think that's a surgical tape. There's a high grade textile tape that looks like that. protecting the terminals from shorting is vital. unless there's a built in fuse in the battery you're looking at a serious event. battery destruction likely. You might pull them off and simply create a puddle of hotglue as cover instead.
Looks good tips.
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Old 03-22-11, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Oh ok. All that is beyond me.
Well, as much as I like to encourage DIY, I really wonder if this is for you. Get it wrong and you have an excellent chance of blowing a battery, frying your wiring and maybe hurt yourself while you're at it.

Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
Um what did you mean by the last sentence?
You know what a car battery looks like "in the nude"? It has two exposed metal nubs, one is the positive terminal(AKA anode) one is the negative terminal (AKA cathode).
What you have hiding under your tape patches (top two to the left, middle two to the right and last two to the left again) are the terminals to your batteries.
On #4 and #5 you can even see a hint of red poking through, telling us that those are positive terminals.
It is Very Important not to get an accidental connection between these terminals. If that happens the battery will try to deliver as much power as it possibly can, as fast as it can.
If you think your melted fuse holder looks bad now, well that's nothing compared to what a shorted battery can do.

Putting a tape patch on like that is rather weak protection, #3 looks like it's on its way to wear through already.
With regular hot glue(you know, applicator gun, glue in sticks, common in arts & crafts use) you could simply pull the tape off, clean away the adhesive residue, and form a puddle of glue over each terminal (it'll sit like if you mashed a chewing gum over it) and get a higher degree of protection.
The other option is to keep monitoring the terminals, and to replace the tape patches with new ones whenever they start to come off or wear through.
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