Found a crack in my lug (and frame?) + other questions.
 

I've had this frame for about 2 years now, was storing it on hangers (from the wheels) in the garage. Due to some back problems and space issues, I never got around to working on it until now.

While messing around and tweaking it etc. I found this little crack. I can't tell if it's just the lug or also into the frame. However, I would assume that the frame would have cracked, which would in turn crack the lug (though I have no idea).

Would this be the result of someone trying to force the wrong size headset on or something else? ...I really have no idea and haven't touched the headset:(

The second part of my question is if this might be a safety issue, yeah it's a tiny crack, but I have no idea.

...As a secondary question, what are peoples thoughts on doing some sort of a clear coat over an old frame? there's a bit of minor surface rusting / chipped paint / and decal pealing going on. Is finishing with a clear coat a no-no for vintage bikes? or is it accepted as long as the paint is original underneath? Although I guess it doesn't matter if the frame is compromised.


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ns/photo-1.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/photo1-2.jpg

I would not ride it. Take it to a frame builder and see if it is worth replacing the lug.

Not what I want to hear, but you're probably right, safety first I guess.

That's the clearest example I've seen of a head tube split by a headset race. These are usually caused by the outside diameter of the headset being too large for the inside diameter of the head tube, or the race simply being pressed in improperly.

Yeah that's what I figured, what do you think I should do? ...is this a more-than-cosmetic problem?

I almost want to just ignore it, but that probably isn't the best idea.

...and I'm trying to stay positive.

Someone who does real frame repair and/or framebuilding should have a few options. I could see removing the headset and cups and try to determine the cause. It looks like poor installation and/or improper fitting cups (too large). If the bottom (where the lower cup is ) is fine and usable as is, I could see drilling a hole at the root of the crack (for stress relief, and to terminate the crack and keep it from propagating). Hopefully upon headset removal, the crack will spring closed. For this reason, I'd drill the hole first, because it will be easier to located the end of the crack (root). If it does not spring closed, I'd try to bend it back a little. The inside and outside of the crack is ground a little with a die grinder (think dremel tool) to vee it out for braze repair. The crack is then brazed up, with care taken not to soften the other braze joints. The inside and outside of the repair will then need cleaning and re-shaping, with filing and some work with the die grinder. Then a proper headset installation, first with reaming to get it back to size after the repair, facing for alignment, and then headset installation, making sure to use the correct size. I would think that a properly done braze repair to the crack would be of adequate strength. Alternatively, all the above applied, except for a skilled TIG welder could fix the crack with welding instead of brazing. Tig welding can localize the heat to a high degree. One could also TIG braze.

The other option would be for a framebuilder to replace the head lug. I don't know how often this is done, but it is doable.

Either repair, paint will needed afterwards. I think the former method would require the least amount of intrusion, but I think it is a more unorthodox repair for bicycles. Rather common in other applications. The former method could be done by someone skilled in that type of repair (crack repair), unrelated to bicycles (a welding shop or a machine shop that does job or repair work). I would not expect the latter type of shop to ream and face the head tube after the repair, but leave that to a well equipped bike shop.

I'm assuming you have steel lugs, either investment cast or pressed steel.

Cost to repair? I have no idea. I think the crack repair could be brazed or welded within 2 hours, prep to finish (not reamed or faced).

Awesome information man, that pretty much covers what I was wondering.

Sounds like it's going to need to be done and hopefully the cost won't exceed it's worth. I'd really hate to lose the original paint as well.

Check the guys at Cycle Art, they can do a full restore and might with your pics. give some advice on the head tube replace but I see $$ signs for this kind of repair. Riding with a loose headset will also do this as well.

Took a look at the site.

...I'm just not sure if I can justify the repair, in terms of $ / losing the original paint / etc.

Disheartening for sure.

I would have a framebuilder braze the crack and machine the head tube so this doesn't happen again.

e-mailed one with pictures and asked for an estimate, I'll update with his response.

I'm hoping that it will be worth the price.

So, talked to someone about it and the break down is around $300 for a repair on it... mainly structural and around $500 for the repaint / chrome / done 'right'.

If I wait about 3 months he can assist me through the process and teach me at the same time, I'd have to home chrome etc.

this is kind of a horror story.

Hi, well the bike wont disintegrate all of the sudden with a crack like that, but I have seen happening is that the crack will get bigger as the time goes by, since you have not used the bike in a while probably the crack has been always there and never noticed it.

That crack could be because of lack on installation, facing is always good when installing a headset, but you have to add the fact that the bike might be old and the lug simply gave up, the other thing is that many times with series production frames like that one (lug work tells) the tubes in this case the front and the top tube (I believe) are not touching to each other 100% so the lug have to work even more to make it up for the structural fail, If the lug failed the front tube failed as well.

As for repair, u can change the lug or braze the crack from the inside out, sand... and that's it, good as new. The advantage in brazing the crack again (this is done with broken dropouts) is that you wont mess with the angles no more, probably the only thing you will need to do after wards is just face the lug really well. Not a builder but i have seen my master builder done this several times.

Good luck and you have to tell us how to chrome at home :) THat looks interesting :D

Kind of hard to diagnose what I would do by looking at a picture. But I think I would braze it and give it a try. First I would need to take the headset apart and do some inspecting to see how everything appears structurally. I don't know if that is necessarily the best option. Drilling a stop and a mig tack might work better. I would need to discuss it with a welder.

Of course, if the top cup is not loose in the head tube, riding and seeing if it gets any worse may work too.. :D

Just brazing the crack isn't going to fix it. The cup of the headset is a press fit so it must fit tightly. The crack has increased the diameter of the headtube so the headset fit is going to be affected. If the frame is worth repair, have it repaired. If the frame isn't all that special, get a new frame. Cracked frames aren't something that you should keep riding until they fail...they've already failed...they are cracked!

Would maybe the manuf replace the frame. Most are guaranteed for life if you are the origional owner.

Not really an option, it's a 1972(ish) Maserati MT-2(made by Fiorelli).

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog.../maserati2.jpg

...funny how it doesn't know exactly what kind of steel it's made of.

I haven't done frame repair, but I've done braze and weld repair. Someone who knows how to braze will add material (braze) to the headset tube. This will decrease the inner diameter, done right. After the repair, some metal (braze) will have to be removed (with a reamer) to fit the new cups anyway. If properly done, they will press fit again. Key here is to determine the root cause. Accident? Bad material? Bad cup install? Improper size cups? Determining the cause will influence the remedy. Otherwise I'm in full agreement with what you said.

I'm not going to say that brazing the crack is the proper way to repair this frame, but I don't see a crack braze repair as being incompatible with press fitting new cups. Brazing adds material. If it were my bike, I'd most likely braze an additional piece of steel across the crack, to beef up the area. I wouldn't presume to make it look like it was before the crack, just make it safe to ride. It will leave a "scar" if you will.

I was thinking the polished parts were stainless. Being chrome will complicate things (cosmetically).

A good silver brazer will fill the crack with very little chrome discoloration.

+1 either way the front tube needs to be reamed and faced to specs again.

brazing isn't going to make this as strong as it needs to be, and I really wonder about the chroming/painting estimate. It needs a head tube replacement, lug re-welded, and probably a top tube. Brazing temperatures will generate poisonous gases from the chrome; it needs to be removed. I don't think this bike is worth fixing.

Adding material isn't the point. The added material would be in the wrong direction. The crack has changed the diameter of the headtube slightly and adding material to fill the gap will only fill the gap. It does nothing to return the diameter of the headtube to it's original diameter. The amount that the diameter has changed may be small but it has still changed. That's going to have an effect on how the headset fits and functions.

OP, it split when the cup was pressed in because the head tube needed reaming. I've seen this failure repaired with silver, a good brazer will limit the chrome discoloration. Brazing always results in dangerous outgasses, that's why you want to use a pro...If you like the frame, the repair I described will allow you to enjoy it for many years, it's a low impact area.