Hand Built vs Machine built Wheel...
 

I was in my LBS yesterday getting my 3 spoke replaced on a less than a yr old trek fx 7.1. It's getting kinda annoying since the bike it fairly new, I'm not a heavy guy ( less than 200lbs) and I don't carry anything more then a gym bag. Anyway, I was speaking to the salesman and mechanic and they said I need a stronger wheel. The salesman said that I either get a prebuilt/machine built wheel for about $100 where I will probably run into the same problem just maybe a little less often or I could get a handmade wheel for about $200 where I will never run into this issue....Is this true or can I just get a machine built wheel for a decent price that will support me?

Most of us will say that machine built wheels generally do not have the evenness of spoke tension to do well. I've bought 3 sets of machine builts over the years where time or the resale price of the bike they were to go onto did not justify me doing builds. In all cases the wheels needed a tune up right out of the box to even up the tension. Add more tension after that and finally re-true.

So there may be a good middle ground for you in the option of getting a machine built wheel and then having a good wheel guy do a tune up on it before you even mount your first tire.

Frankly I think these two guys are trying to sell you a high profit margin handbuilt wheel. It's apparent that when they are replacing the spoke that they are ONLY replacing the spoke and not checking out the wheel to fix you up and ensure that this doesn't happen again. You're not getting any decent service from them. Especially if you bought the bike there. When the first spoke needed replacing it would be a very neglectful mechanic that didn't look the wheel over and tighten up any loose spokes or at least say "Come look at this. We can do a tune up to make sure you don't have any more troubles for $X." The fact that they didn't suggests that they aren't taking very good care of your new bike.

It sounds to me as if you could benefit from a good 36 spoke hand built wheel. And $200 sounds pretty cheap.

machine-built wheels are fine although typically I'd rather have a human mechanic "top it off" by optimizing true/tension. I'd consider this "mostly-machine-assembled."
as BCRider says, don't get a new wheel, just replace the spoke and get the tension optimized by the mechanic. will cost you a lot less.

While $200 hand-built wheels are certainly nice, I don't think you need it.

Unless you're jumping curbs or otherwise abusing your wheelset, a decent 32 spoke wheelset should not be a problem at your weight. I'd suggest you talk to the shop about either getting your wheel right or replacing under warranty.

A decent hand built wheel should come in for less than $200.00... and one could re-use the existing hub and save dollars there. From scratch you should be looking at 150.00 - 180.00 for a decent quality hand built wheel but the price could go much higher depending on parts.

Have built $700.0 wheel sets for expedition touring with high spoke count hand built hubs and rims... but these are not for normal mortals.

The existing wheel might also be fine with a proper tune up but may require a rebuild and the third option is to buy a better quality wheelset from and LBS and have a good wheel builder tune them up.

Have been very happy with the commercially available Formula / Alex 2100 / DT wheel sets available here... they are 36 spoke wheels and a set costs $180.00 Cdn.

Set I was running on my hybrid got checked and tuned up (by me) when I bought the bike and after 4 years and 1000's of km of hard use were still 5 by 5... that is true to a 5/1000 tolerance and they show little brake track wear.

Well, the risk now is that if the present wheel is so far out of whack that it's managed to bust 3 spokes it's likely so poorly tuned that a lot of the other spokes are well on their way to breaking. So even tuning up the present wheel would likely not result in a trouble free future.

I hate to say it but as I said already this shop didn't do right by you starting with the FIRST spoke by not noticing that the wheel was poorly tensioned. I don't see any way around it, you SHOULD get another wheel. But I think I'd get it from another shop. And bonus points to any shop that suggests pre-tuning the wheel instead of just stuffing it on and sending you on your way.

As mentioned above a 32 spoke decently "top up tuned" machine wheel should only add about $25 to $30 the purchase price and such a wheel should/would be as trouble free as a hand built that used the same components.

I've done about 1500 km's on my last set of hand top up tuned machine wheels. The last time I checked the tensions were all still spot on. And the wheels have not required any truing at all during this time. Granted 1500kms is just getting nicely "broken in" for a decent wheel but it shows you that you can expect a long time between any future tune ups if it's done well from the beginning.

I would bet Trek will send you a new wheel if you have your faulty one sent back as a warranty claim. A less-than-1 year old bike should not be breaking spokes. It will also be a machine built wheel that they send, but you can get a competant shop to re-tension and true the new wheel for a few $$, which really gets it 99% as good as a hand built wheel. I would not necessarily get the shop you are now dealing with to do the re-tensioning, tho - find a shop that does a lot of wheel building and pay them to do it.

For machine built wheels, it really depends on what you mean by machine built, if a generic pair of wheels, as seen on a low to mid end bikes, then hand build will always be better, if you mean machine built by big brands, like Fulcrum, Shimano, Reynolds, Zipp etc, these will have been computer designed, and should be perfect straight out the box, and will be as good if not better than many hand built wheels.

In your case, the handbuilt option would be better than a low end machine built set

If you are close to 200 36 double butted spokes makes for a more durable wheel.
Machine built wheels can be as good as hand built, but the manufacturer has to make the choice between high quality and high production. In a cheaper wheel set he will most likely choose higher production.
Unless they have changed Trek will replace their wheels up to 5 years.
You can get by with 32 spokes but they need to be brought to full tension. At least 110 kg.

I'd say there's really no need for a 36 spoke wheel. I'm just a skosh under 200 lbs myself and all my present fleet has 32 spoke wheels that are doing just fine. Even the heavy load shopping bike, which is the one with the set of wheels I mentioned above, is 32 spoke'd and has been totally trouble free despite a fairly routine life of rough roads and 20 or more lbs of junk in the saddlebags.

For longer range loaded touring I'd like the extra insurance of 36 spokes but for the OP I seriously doubt he needs anything more than a nicely tuned up 32 spoke wheelset.

DC80,

The OP already had this wheel re-built by the LBS once as mentioned in a prior thread, I doubt TREK will replace this.



OP,

Did you ever check your spoke tensions? FWIW, I would start checking another LBS since a machine built wheel should be fine as long as you/LBS increase tension in the spokes just as davidad mentioned above. Depending on the rim, you may even be able to go higher than 110 kg. For your purpose, this should be as strong as a hand built wheel. Don't let the LBS tell you otherwise.

One difference between a good handbuilt and a std machine built wheel is the selection of rim.
Rims come with some variance, some are flatter than others. Machine builders just use them all. Handbuilders can reject the more uneven rims and select the best ones.
Starting with a flat rim means that it is much easier to end up with even tension and trueness.
If your Trek wheel just happens to be made with a rim at the wobbly end of the spectrum, it will never be really strong.

The ideal balance between cost and quality is a wheel made by one of the better internet suppliers like Colorado Cyclists or Excel Boulder Sports. These are machine assembled and initially tensioned but "touched up" by hand as a final step. I've had two sets, one by Wheelsmith (CXP33 rims, Dura Ace hubs, WS XL14 spokes, 3X32H) and one by Colorado Cyclist (CXP 33 rims, Chorus Hubs, DT 14/15 spokes, 3X, 32H). Both were absolutely true and tight as received and needed no retruing at all in service. The first lasted 30,000 miles and were replaced when the rim got too thin to trust. The second set has 16,000 miles to date and is still in great shape.

I would trust wheels from these suppliers before most LBS mechanics unless their wheelbuilding reputation was very well established.

if the bike is less than a year old the shop should either get a new wheel from trek or rebuild your wheel with DT or another good quality spoke and bill trek for the parts and larbor.

My Rans Stratus Im sure came with machine built wheels. They now have over 6500 miles on them are perfectly true. The rims are a medium grade rim. I guess my take is that a computer built wheel will be consistent, and should have really even tension. In many cases the computer may be far better than some of the ham handed techs that work in some LBS. A lot of them just work there to get cheap parts so they can race, and really dont care too much how good your wheels are built.

Tell the shop you want a replacement wheel from Trek under warranty. If they balk, find another Trek dealer, explain the situation to them, ask for a new wheel covered under warranty, let them know that you will pay their going rate for a complete "major" wheel truing -- including de- and re-tensioning -- on the new wheel when it arrives. If the original shop agrees to warranty your wheel through Trek, get the wheel and then bring it to another shop for the same kind of wheel service, right off the bat.

You have your original sales receipt to prove original ownership and purchase date, yes? Trek warranties their parts on new bikes for either 5 or 2 years, depending on when you bought it, which covers wheels.

HAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa....... *gasp, hack*

Thanks, much needed humor.

I never checked the tension but I assumed that when I brought the bike in on a couple of occasions and the changed spokes and "true" the wheel they took all necessary sets to see that the problem was solved. Also, when I brought it in (last October after about a month and half of after I bought it) and they said all my spokes were out of wack and had to redo all my spokes they would have checked the tension and do everything needed. I guess they didn't.

semax10,

True wheels and even tension don't necessarily mean the same thing. The LBS can vary tension across several spokes to true your wheel if your rim is not entirely round. This of course will result in uneven tension as you go around the wheel from spoke to spoke. Uneven tension is fine as long as the lowest tensioned the spoke is still sufficiently tensioned so that the spoke when in compression does not become slack enough to flex at the head. Continual flexing of the spoke will cause metal fatigue and breaking spokes which is what you are experiencing. That is why I asked if you have different tensions especially if your wheel had been trued up.