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Old 06-07-11, 06:34 PM   #1
estasnyc
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Which Rear Wheel To Use? (Spoke-Count Issue)

Can someone give advice on which of two rear wheels to use that I've now acquired?

Simply by waiting patiently, I've been able to score a few good deals on Craig's List. Now I have both a complete wheelset AND a second rear wheel.

The rear wheel belonging to the wheelset has a Shimano Ultrega FH-6600 hub and a Mavic Open Pro rim with 32 spokes. The other rear wheel has a Shimano RSX FH-A410 hub and a Mavic CXP-10 rim with 36 spokes. I weigh 205 pounds (93 kilograms).

(Of course I'll use the front wheel from the wheelset.)

If I were twenty pounds lighter then this would be a no-brainer. The Ultrega/Open Pro wheel is the better one. But I'm not.

Your advice, my friends?

P.S. Might anybody know of an LBS in New York City that may be willing to give a good deal on some sort of trade-in for the equivalent Ultrega/Open Pro wheel with 36 spokes?

Last edited by estasnyc; 06-07-11 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Another Question To Ask
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Old 06-07-11, 06:41 PM   #2
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have them both tensioned and trued,
since you got them and have no memory of when it was done last.

you could ride the CXPs till you work off that extra 20#.
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Old 06-07-11, 06:44 PM   #3
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since they are used i would ride the one in best condition. even and high tension. no loose spokes. i weigh 200 and am currently commuting on some 24 hole wheels that are stock on my trek portland. no issues so far and i dont expect any
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Old 06-07-11, 07:49 PM   #4
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I'd hold a screwdriver lightly against the spokes and spin each wheel. Whichever wheel has the least amount of pitch change gets my vote. If you think the pitch test is a tie, go for the Ultegra/Open Pros. An adequately built 32 spoke Ultegra/Open Pro will handle your weight.
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Old 06-07-11, 08:44 PM   #5
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If it were me I'd run the 36 spoke wheel until you lose the weight, lest you risk breaking the nicer Open Pro/Ultegra wheel. It's unlikely, but of course anything is possible. Hit a bad bump, railroad tracks, crash, etc.
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Old 06-07-11, 09:21 PM   #6
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The Open Pro is a lightweight racing clincher...it wasn't designed for everyday or commute use. Go with the heavier wheel - get it checked and if okay, ride!

=8-)
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Old 06-07-11, 09:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
The Open Pro is a lightweight racing clincher...it wasn't designed for everyday or commute use. Go with the heavier wheel - get it checked and if okay, ride!

=8-)
I've commuted on Mavic Reflex clincher and Open Pros for the last fifteen years at weights up to 215 pounds.

I bent the 400 gram Reflex clincher rim I had on the front for 12-14 years after breaking my leg and growing beyond 200 pounds on some sort of road obstacle (most likely a pot hole) although the heavier Open Pros have been fine until crashed.

If the Open Pros were hand-built by some one competent I'd use them.
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Old 06-08-11, 06:06 AM   #8
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estasync, The CXP10 is one of my favorite rims, not too heavy and very strong. The RSX hub was usually available as a 7S, but I don't remember if it used a spacer behind the cassette or not, if not and you're running 8S+ there's a compatibility issue. You can measure the length of the free hub and compare with the Ultegra hub to determine if an issue exists, if not have all three wheels retensioned, ride the Ultegra/Open Pro wheelset and keep the CXP10 for a spare.

Brad
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Old 06-08-11, 06:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I'd hold a screwdriver lightly against the spokes and spin each wheel. Whichever wheel has the least amount of pitch change gets my vote. If you think the pitch test is a tie, go for the Ultegra/Open Pros. An adequately built 32 spoke Ultegra/Open Pro will handle your weight.
+1

I've been between 205 and 230lbs during the last three years and have put 10,000 miles of cycling in. I've used both a 36 spoke and 32 spoke rear wheel with Shimano hubs and Open Pro rims.

The 32 spoke wheel was just as reliable as the 36 spoke wheel. Both stayed true for thousands of miles and never a broken spoke.

I would use the 36 spoke for commuting and save the 32 spoke for other use. I might be tempted to put a wide range cassette and a slighty larger tire on the 36 spoke wheel and a tighter cassette with a smaller tire on the 32 spoke set, but that's just me.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-08-11 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 06-08-11, 08:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I've commuted on Mavic Reflex clincher and Open Pros for the last fifteen years at weights up to 215 pounds.

I bent the 400 gram Reflex clincher rim I had on the front for 12-14 years after breaking my leg and growing beyond 200 pounds on some sort of road obstacle (most likely a pot hole) although the heavier Open Pros have been fine until crashed.

If the Open Pros were hand-built by some one competent I'd use them.
Everday commuting?

You are not exaggerating out of some out of some need to defend Mavic are you?

I almost routinely toss out a half dozen to a dozen Open Pros each year - Mavic does the best they can but all the eyelets do is buy a little time. I.e., they eventually tear out. The old Reflex clincher? Even worse. There the material separation occurred along the sharp transition from the sidewall to the inner body.

As I've stated already...it's a lightweight racing clincher. Sure, I'd love to use them and CXP-33s on a commute bike - but then again I can deal with problems that crop up. I can't assume the same for my customers - hence why I don't push my personal desires, preferences and greed as advice to my customers. Not a good practice to be honest.

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 06-08-11, 03:13 PM   #11
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Everday commuting?
Since 1996 except last August I cut back to 4 days a week (totaling 95 miles) after getting an office farther from home. I took some time off for a herniated disc, a broken leg, and a couple of additional surgeries. I also used different wheels with cyclocross tires mounted for snow days in Boulder, CO.

Starting with Reflex clinchers, switching to Open Pros after Mavic changed to the heavier rim and I damaged the original Reflex.

Obviously they work well enough for some people.

Quote:
You are not exaggerating out of some out of some need to defend Mavic are you?
Nope. I answered the OPs question and related my experience about Open Pros working fine. I continued the thread for my own amusement while waiting for a computer to process.

An Open Pro wouldn't be my first choice (deeper/heavier rims are less likely to bend on an unnoticed obstacle, they've gotten expensive, other rims are more aerodynamic, and other rims don't have anecdotal reports of extrusion thickness variation and suggestions that alloy selection/quality has changed over the years) although I wouldn't choose not to ride one I owned or replace it with something else after a crash (which would imply spoke replacement for the different ERD and a little more work).

The OP owns one.

Quote:
I almost routinely toss out a half dozen to a dozen Open Pros each year - Mavic does the best they can but all the eyelets do is buy a little time. I.e., they eventually tear out. The old Reflex clincher? Even worse. There the material separation occurred along the sharp transition from the sidewall to the inner body.
At what tension (average and variation)? They don't tolerate high tension. Representing what fraction of Open Pro rims owned by your customers? There are a lot of Open Pros out there so lots of failures aren't necessarily a high failure rate. How does that compare to the failure rate of other rims with similar mileage?

While I might not risk building and selling wheels with Open Pro rims I wouldn't go as far as blaming the rims.

Quote:
As I've stated already...it's a lightweight racing clincher. Sure, I'd love to use them and CXP-33s on a commute bike - but then again I can deal with problems that crop up. I can't assume the same for my customers - hence why I don't push my personal desires, preferences and greed as advice to my customers. Not a good practice to be honest.
While there are better choices no one is buying anything here.

Lots of people have used Open Pros without issue so they're not guaranteed to fail.

The OP's ultegra hub and Open Pro rim are farther up the food chain than his RSX hub + CXP-10 with the associated price tag leaving room for a wheel builder's personal attention and chances of a good build higher. In that situation I'd take the Open Pro.

Personally I'd avoid the pre-built wheels due to questionable build quality especially used ones with unknown fatigue and small bends on top of that unless it was a screaming deal for the hubs.

Probably try Velocity Fusion or A23 rims next time - I'm not happy with the unusual tightness of Continental tires on Kinlin XR-300 rims, the velocities come in classic silver, and I should be able to get replacements for a long time.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 06-08-11 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 06-08-11, 03:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Since 1996 except last August I cut back to 4 days a week (totaling 95 miles) after getting an office farther from home. I took some time off for a herniated disc, a broken leg, and a couple of additional surgeries. I also used different wheels with cyclocross tires mounted for snow days in Boulder, CO.

Starting with Reflex clinchers, switching to Open Pros after Mavic changed to the heavier rim and I damaged the original Reflex.

Obviously they work well enough for some people.

Nope. I answered the OPs question and related my experience about Open Pros working fine. I continued the thread for my own amusement while waiting for a computer to process.

An Open Pro wouldn't be my first choice (deeper/heavier rims are less likely to bend on an unnoticed obstacle, they've gotten expensive, other rims are more aerodynamic, and other rims don't have anecdotal reports of extrusion thickness variation and suggestions that alloy selection/quality has changed over the years) although I wouldn't choose not to ride one I owned or replace it with something else after a crash (which would imply spoke replacement for the different ERD and a little more work).

The OP owns one.

At what tension (average and variation)? They don't tolerate high tension. Representing what fraction of Open Pro rims owned by your customers? There are a lot of Open Pros out there so lots of failures aren't necessarily a high failure rate. How does that compare to the failure rate of other rims with similar mileage?

While I might not risk building and selling wheels with Open Pro rims I wouldn't go as far as blaming the rims.

While there are better choices no one is buying anything here.

Lots of people have used Open Pros without issue so they're not guaranteed to fail.

The OP's ultegra hub and Open Pro rim are farther up the food chain than his RSX hub + CXP-10 with the associated price tag leaving room for a wheel builder's personal attention and chances of a good build higher. In that situation I'd take the Open Pro.

Personally I'd avoid the pre-built wheels due to questionable build quality especially used ones with unknown fatigue and small bends on top of that unless it was a screaming deal for the hubs.

Probably try Velocity Fusion or A23 rims next time - I'm not happy with the unusual tightness of Continental tires on Kinlin XR-300 rims, the velocities come in classic silver, and I should be able to get replacements for a long time.

Actually all alloy rims are guaranteed to fail - some a lot sooner than others - such as the rim we are talking about - a lightweight racing clincher..

As a matter of fact, back in the mid-80s, a Mavic catalog came out at one time for which they actually provided the average life expectancy in miles before failure due to fatigue. The MA-40 was listed in that catalog at 40,000 +/- miles.

It rarely happens - most rims die from accidents - or disappear into the black hole of theft. I have had to replace rims in the past including MA-40s which simply could no longer participate in the balanced stressed environment of an assembled wheel due to general fatigue- some customers are lucky - or just darn careful on the road.

The Open Pro will fail either due to eyelet pull-out or sidewall wear - I suspect long before general fatigue sets in.

I build 'em for daily riders every year - not because of advice on my part - but because they insist and know what they are getting into. Customers want what they want - period.

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 06-08-11, 09:33 PM   #13
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I guess I'll stick with my original plan of using the rear wheel with RSX hub and CXP-10 rim (which I had bought first) but hold off on reselling the Ultrega/Open Pro rear wheel. I'll keep the option of being able to change my mind at the price of having more clutter at home.

As an aside, this RSX hub does have a 7-speed freehub. It also had a 4mm spacer on the non-drive side that I removed to reduce the O.L.D. from 130mm down to 126mm (with the wheel accordingly re-dished) to match the dropout on my Bottechia. Another Craig's list item that I've already purchased and installed is a Shimano 105 FC-5502 9-speed crankset (53/39) along with a BB-5500 bottom bracket.

My next move will be to get a 9-speed cassette and convert it to an 8-speed in the way that Sheldon Brown described on his website that I've been using as a reference. After that, I'll be looking to replace the Campagnolo friction shifters and derailleurs with the proper Shimano components compatible with parts listed above. (I haven't researched this part yet.)

(One of the questions that's repeatedly ask, now and again, is whether it will be worth the price to put newer components on an older bike instead of buying a newer bike with modern components. My answer is a qualified yes only because I've found good deals online and have done all of my own labor. If I paid full price for these parts then the answer would definitely be no.)
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Old 06-08-11, 09:55 PM   #14
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One of the questions that's repeatedly ask, now and again, is whether it will be worth the price to put newer components on an older bike instead of buying a newer bike with modern components. My answer is a qualified yes only because I've found good deals online and have done all of my own labor. If I paid full price for these parts then the answer would definitely be no.
I think I agree with you here. It depends on the bike and the components. Is it worth putting full Dura Ace on my 89 Trek 1500? Of course not. But some upgrades make the bike a lot more enjoyable to ride. You just need to know where to draw the line.
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