illdthedj

hi!

i will preface this with saying i have done some google searching and im sure this topic is covered to death, and im sorry in advance for bringing it back up again....but i just wanted to hear some more opinions.

ANYWHO....

i have recently acquired a Vitus 979 aluminum road frameset.
this isn't mine, but pretty much exact frameset:


most of these were color anodized, but this one is painted white in the main triangle.

It is structurally sound for sure, but the paint is chipped/rubbed, and the rest of the aluminum frame could use some "touching up"...

I will be stripping the white paint with some chemical stripper...and plan on polishing it all up to a nice shiny silver.

now here comes my questions....

im assuming the non painted parts of the frame are just polished aluminum? So i guess i can just go at the frame with fine grit sandpaper working up to finer and finer then use metal polish after that?

now, what about AFTER im done polishing everything to a nice shiny finish?
am i going to have to continuously polish it to keep it shiny? is it possible to finish it with a clearcoat or some product to keep it protected? do i have to start worrying about rusting/etc?

and lets say i want to paint the triangle white again, should i sand everything with escalating fineness of sand paper, but just not use simichrome polish or whatever on the areas i want to paint?

any help is appreciated! thanks!

mrrabbit 

Head tube appears to be bent...slightly but I can see it in the photo. That bike likely has been involved in a frontal collision...

=8-)

illdthedj

lol i noticed that after posting ;p
dont worry mine is not bent...just paint chipped and scuffed up.

so i read a bit more from google searching and aluminum does not rust? lol i didn't know that. i plead ignorance.
but again, once i polish this puppy up, is there anything i need/should do/apply to protect the shiny goodness?

Mr Gnome

On my 1979 Harley I used Simichrome polish on the aluminum primary cover. It would get it to shinning as close to chrome as you could get. I then put car wax on to help protect it. Every few months I'd have to redo the process...but it didn't take that long after the first time.

As far as I know about clear coat, it's just paint without pigment in it. So that wouldn't work for what you want because you have to use primer to get it to stick.

Bob

gbg

I have a 1989 Rocky Mountain stratos bare AL frame that I polish up once in a while.
Since I have been riding it in the winter the last few years the finish has taken a hit.
When it is really cruddy I take JETS kitchen pots scrubbers to remove most of the
crud and then go at it with flitz, looks like "blue magic" (I think that is the name) metal polish.
It will still get close to a mirror shine, I then use 100% Carnuba wax to help protect it.

FastJake

For the spots that you're going to paint, sand it with fine sandpaper. Don't get it totally shiny. Then prime and paint just like you would anything else.

For the rest, unless it's in very bad condition sandpaper shouldn't be necessary. It will just create marks you'll have to polish out. Try buffing it first with a cloth wheel and buffing compound and see where that leaves you. Sanding creates a lot of work you'll have to do later. Protect it with a few coats of wax. I wouldn't bother trying to clear coat it. Unless you totally neglect it a waxing every couple months should keep it nice and protected. I assume this won't be a daily rider/commuter bike.

Jeff Wills

A while back I acquired a polished Gold Rush recumbent: https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/jeff-grr/index.htm . When I got it, it appeared to have been left in the Arizona sun for a couple years. The finish was heavily oxidized and there were several deep scratches. I sanded out the deep scratches with 320 grit wet sandpaper, followed by 600 grit wet paper, followed that with rubbing compound, then polishing compound, then Mother's Mag polish. It's got a mirror finish now- it's kind of fun to look down and see the reflection of the clouds in the top tube. A little touch-up every month or two keeps it that way, and I ride it in all sorts of weather.

A word of warning: on the 979, the fittings for the brake cable in the top tube are rather delicate. I'd stay away from them with the sandpaper, and probably the rubbing compound. Too much work and they might disappear!

illdthedj

hmmmmm well i think i have a grasp on it!
been going at the frame with 320 grit sandpaper, and its already looking allot better than before. going to work up to 800 or 1000 grit, and i now have some simichrome waiting to be applied.

been doing some research, and been thinking about KEEPING the frame polished and protected from oxidation. Some people say clearcoat, but ive heard that wont stick to polished aluminum, and could discolor.

So i saw this stuff, anyone have any experience with it?
https://www.eastwood.com/ew-metaprote...z-aerosol.html

fietsbob

The white looked good to me..

miamijim

Clear coat will stick to polished aluminum.

1000 grit isnt going to do it, I'd go to at least 1500 grit wet sanded and you should sand in 1 direction only. From there you can use the polish of your choice...Simichrome, Mothers.....

illdthedj

ok, will do on the 1500.

just one more question:
in between grits, should i clean off the frame? what should i use to clean off all the black dust that accumulates?

Jeff Wills

I used plain water. FWIW: once I had mine smooth with 600 grit, I started using compounds on cloth. Automotive rubbing compound (the red stuff), polishing compound (white) and finished with Mother's.

jccaclimber

I'd really love to meet a clear coat that sticks to mirror polished aluminum well. I've never met one that the average consumer can easily apply.
That said, I have one of those with navy blue anodized tubes and polished lugs, it looks really nice. You will have to touch up the polish every couple months, but it isn't hard after the first time. Note that unlike the lugs, the rear triangle IS anodized (clear) so you'll have to strip that first if you want to polish it. While you're at it, this is a great time to sand/file (be conservative) off the casting seams/marks on the lugs and dropouts. Also, at least on mine (and every other one I've seen) there's a bit of a gap where the lugs don't meet the tubes perfectly on one or two joints. You aren't going to avoid this, even if you disassemble and reglue the entire frame (been there, done that on a carbon Vitus), so I would advise against making the entire frame polished. Mother's brand polish has worked very well for me.

ultraman6970

What u have to do is this, u have to sand the white, then buy a primer than etch to the aluminum like for example this (https://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_acid.cfm), then paint and clear coat it with car paint. Please use something like ppg for example.

I dont advice you to use spray from rustoleum, if you want something that will last use car paint. Cheap rattle can like rustoleum wont work as good as car paint.

Good luck.

ps: dont dare to use duplicolor car paint, is a waste of time and money. Even the cheapest car polyurethane paint is 1000 better than duplicolor.

Myosmith

Consider a satin finish, it's much easier to maintain. Sand out all imperfections to 1000 grit and then take it to someone who sandblasts. Ask them to use a walnut shell abrasive at low pressure just to give it an even satin finish. Most sandblasters who do custom automotive work will know exactly what you are talking about. Industrial sandblasters may not. You can also buy spot sandblasting guns for under $25 and do it yourself if you have a compressor. Just wear good eye and respiratory protection and long sleeves, and work outdoors. Carnuba wax or a polymer/silicone automotive wax/polish will preserve the finish and it won't show every minor scratch or speck of dust.

Myosmith

Beware that chemical strippers may not work on some paints such as Emron or Epoxy and can be very corrosive or discoloring to aluminum.

ultraman6970

The other thing that u can do is to buy metal finish paint and kind'a use a light sandpaper to give it the metal finishing u can and then clear.

fietsbob

Chemicals in paint stripper may weaken the Epoxy in the joints too..

illdthedj

well, lets just say i have used a what i would consider a mid strength chemical stripper to strip the white paint, have sanded everything down well and a few times with 320 grit sandpaper, all paint and anodizing is removed, and i have a dull shine somewhat smooth frame.

i guess im going to go up a notch in fineness of sandpaper...i think i have some 500?



anywho, i think my end-game for this frame, aesthetically, is polished aluminum on everything, and just painting the seat tube....i know traditionally vitus 979s have the main triangle colored, but i was thinking of trying something different and just having one tube colored. in my head it sound interesting. i guess if i arrive at that and find it wierd i could resort to painting the other tubes....i have a friend who can do single color rub downs, so i might fabricate in adobe illustrator the vitus logo and have him make me two in yellow....

but a question or two regarding painting the seat tube (or possibly the other two main tubes):

So i should use an acid etch primer like this where i want to paint? (https://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_acid.cfm)
Should i stop sanding with finer sandpapers on the tube(s) i want to paint?
should i sand down the primer before painting? what grit?

and about paint....any recommendation on spray type paint in a can? lets just say, i do not have an air compressor or sprayer, and i dont want to powdercoat or have professionally done, but im willing to shell out a little extra for high quality spray type paint.....i guess automotive paint? a specific brand that will come in a spray can?
so i should then spray light coat, sand, light coat, sand, light coat? something like that?

and sorry for all the questions....please feel free to tell me to do my own research, i totally deserve it.
also, all advice so far is really appreciated. thanks!

ultraman6970

What happens is that regular primer doesnt work in aluminum, it doesnt stick to it, thats why u need a special primer for it that basically is primer plus and adhesion promoter and who knows what else. Whenever u want to paint u have to use this primer or any primer for aluminum.

I have a scott bike that was cleared over the bare aluminum, how they did it no idea, looks like they just light sanded it and applyed the clear over, unless is not clear and is something else, still cant figure it out.

To paint u have to sand like with 500 or even steel wool, the idea is to etch the surface so the primer has something to adhere 1st.

Well, the primer sanding... it depends, if you have runs u can sand the runs to fix them but in general u dont have to do it, if you want to do just to get rid off of overspray or small anomalies in the surface y can do it like with 800 or 600 grit sand paper, that will be enough before painting. Do not abuse or you will sand all the way to bare metal. Usually paint if good will cover little details here and there but runs in the primer u have to fix them.

Get something called Preval Sprayer (google it), it is super cheap and gets the work done, get 2 full units and 2 extra charges if you are going to paint the whole bike (rather have more than you run out before finishing). Each unit is like 10 bucks and the charges are like 6 or so. U put the paint in the bottle and spray it, good stuff. The noozle in that thing is similar to a comercial spray gun, but practice 1st in a plastic can or something so u get the hand used to it ok? paint a bike is not easy, paint a car door is probably easier. If you want sparkles u can add them to the paint, if are fine enough the sprayer will shoot them also, have done this also.

Yes car paint, polyurethane 2 stages. Go to the cheapest place for car paint you could find and ask for a PINT of car paint in the color u want, 1 pint is more than enough, if the guy refuse to sell a pint, find another place. Ask for the cheapest. Buy 1/4 or a gallon of thiner also, is a special thinner (reducer)for that type of paint. Ask the guy, he will know, ask him for the mixing ratio also. Some will say thay u need activator but it depends of the brand of paint u use. Nason paint use paint, thinner and activator (super expensive), if you go cheap like for example OMNI Plus, u wont need activator just mix it with the reducer (thinner) and u are ready to go, that will be dried to the touch for sanding maybe in 5 to 7 hours (maybe less), and ready for clear like in 2 hours (if you dont need to sand it and fix imperfections)

Clear, this is the expensive part. I use Nason 496-00 it is a clear for panels that is sold in quarts (the only reason i picked this one), u will need the activator nason 483-78, between those two we are talking about 50 to 80 bucks. This clear is awesomely shiny and easier to polish.

The cheap option is to get 2k clearcoat in a can thats like 20 bucks maybe but is good for 24 hours, so once u activate the can u have 24 hours to shoot or the paint will get too hard to spray. The other cheap option that works is to get U-POL #1 clear coat, 1 can is more than enough, is similar to car clear and has UV protection, good stuff. If its the 1st time u paint i would try with u-pol clear. Put the can in hot water like for 15 minutes before spraying, it will flow better.

1st coat is always light because u have to get the paint to get sticky and ready to get a wet coat, in this way the wet has less chances to run also. If you get a run move the frame so the run flats as much as possible. So light coat, then wet coat, then light coat of clear then wet clear coat. done.

If you got runs or imperfections, let the paint dry and sand it. Then clear coat it. If you want to put more coats or sand more it depends of you but looks like u have the idea already. But pretty much if the tubes are well prep with 1 wet coat and 2 wet cleat coats u are ok.

Darn this was long.

ps: after u painted the paint will get dull not shiny, thats why u need the clear for. If your clear has runs let it dry for 12 hours or so and sand it, then the clear got dull, easy fix, get a paint polisher compound like meguiar's or 3M. Always read the labels!

illdthedj

wow that is an incredibly informative post, i really appreciate it! saving this page as a bookmark so i can go thru it later and focus on which stages i am at...thanks man!

radshark

I tried some Super Fine (#0000) steel wool and it worked pretty good. The equivalent grit is about 800-1000.

illdthedj

hey ultraman! if you are still around, please lemme know what you think:

ok! so i taped up everything i didn't want painted (the vitus' lugs) and sanded down everything i wanted painted well, and have applied 3 thin layers of some etching aluminum specific primer....and it looks smooth so far!

so i guess i dont need to sand the primer at all since there are no imperfections?

next step is to paint! i got prevals, and some automotive paint (house of kolor) they were not horribly expensive online, and you can get as little as 4 ounce bottles of them!
I went with Burgundy Candy color ;p

So i guess my next question is...i mix the paint with the reducer (says 2:1)...
ok, it says "Reduced 2:1 with reducer"....im guessing that's 2 parts paint, 1 part reducer? (and not the other way around?...just making sure haha)

1st coat light? do i need to sand after first coat?
is second coat "wet"?

is two coats sufficient?


and i have some clearcoat spray....i dont need to sand the paint down before this, do i?


sorry for all the questions!

BCRider

... burgundy candy color...

STOP RIGHT THERE ! ! ! ! !

If it's a true candy color that means the paint is a transparent type. Think rose colored sunglasses. The idea is that you can see through the top color to the base for a deeper looking finish. But it also means that with a candy color you want to use an aluminium, silver or gold underlay color so it reflects the light back out for a proper deep looking glow. If you put the burgundy over the primer it just won't pop. In fact it may just look dull and lifeless or even just plain wrong depending on the color of the primer.

With a candy color the idea is also that you build up the color with a lot of light but still wet looking coats until you have the even color and the depth of color you want. A hot rod candy finish with lacquer can sometimes take 15 to 20 passes back over the areas to give an even looking red overall with the right amount of depth and color. If the drying time to recoating is only a short time with this product you may be lucky. Or if it gets at least tacky quickly so you can re-apply another pass every minute or so again that is what you'll need to do.

From this and assuming that it's a proper candy color you can see that it's not really the best option for a new painter to jump in with. So you may want to practice on a scrap of something to test all this out and get a feel for how to do it. Or it may be some sort of fancy stuff which "settles" and "layers" itself. Sort of like hammertone or marble paints go on as a regular looking coat but then do funny things as they settle and dry. For your sake I hope this is the case. If so you may only need one good run free coat. If not then you're in for a long spraying session and you should find out from the paint maker what the minimum recoat time is and what the long delay recoat time is. These two things are different. Minimum recoat time is how soon you can re-coat over a tacky film. Long delay time is how long the first coats need to dry before you can put another coat of the same stuff over top. The minimum time will be minutes to an hour or so. The long delay time can be from 24 hours to a week. For paints that have this factor built in if you try to re-coat during that in between dangerous time it's likely for the fresh coat to soften and lift the lower coat and a mess results.

As for the clear coat prep you want to check with the paint makers. There's just too many types of paints out there for anyone here to answer this with any decent amount of certainty unless they work in the automotive paint industry and know exactly which paint system and clear coat you bought. For example if the color goes on with a matt finish such as the two stage "base-clear" paint systems do then no sanding is needed. If you did not get a clear that is known to work with the color coat and was recomended by the folks that sold you the paint you could be in for a lot of problems. With the wide variety of paint systems for cars these days I would not use anything from primer to polish that was not from a single product line or which was at least not recomended by the folks supplying the paints.

But since it sounds like you didn't get the color and clear from the same place and with their advice it means you're back to painting some samples and try out both options of lightly sanding with some 1000 grit to break the shine and trying some clear over the shine to see how they compare.

One thing is for sure. If the color and clear are not from a common product line you want to allow the color to fully dry and cure before adding the clear over top. To totally dry takes at least a week. And a month would be even better. In a still room you need to be able to sniff at the paint on the frame and not smell even the slightest sign of solvents still gassing off. If you sense anything along the lines of a "new paint smell" it's still gassing off. Only when that is all gone would it be safe for sure to go with a non recomended clear coat if your test pieces show that they clear is compatible with the shiney or lightly sanded lower color.

EDIT- the thinner ratio is likely 2 part thinner to one part paint. A proper consistency for the paint to use in a sprayer is when it's about like 2% milk. This seems really thin but being so thin means that it atomizes to smaller droplets at the nozzle which is what you want for a nice even coat.

BCRider

By the way, to add to the last post. Your primer should still be sanded and then wiped down with a tack cloth. Even if there's no defects in the primer or metal there's still going to be some dust that settled on the primer as it dried.

Which also means you'll ge up for getting dust on your color and clear coats. THis is why a paint room is a nice thing to have. At the very least if you're doing this outdoors or in your garage with the doors open try to pick a dull windless day.

All this stuff from the others and myself is why I would not even try to do a nice color and clear coat job on my own. I'd far rather pay a little extra and have an autobody paint shop with all the right stuff and that uses known compatible combinations do the painting for me in their filtered air dust free spray room. Sure it costs but the results are going to be better and I don't need to invest a big hunk of money into the spray gun and getting a good dust free setup. Or to just go with a powder coat finish for a slightly lower cost. The PC finish generally doesn't have the same depth and shine to it but it's tough and often good enough. THe car paint options bring up a lot of the metallic or specialty options like Candy colors. But it costs more for a shop to do. Or for you to get all you need for the setup.