math is fun

So last night my 2009 Veloce levers arrived and I was prepared to settle in for an hour or two long finicky adjustments session. Much to my pleasure almost as soon as I routed the cables and attached them to the shifter everything shifted perfectly with only a little tweaking of cable tension. This combination was easier to set up than the tiagra shifters they replaced. What is wrong with these engineers that, mixing manufacturers works better than things that were designed to work together?

AEO

just wait until the cable stretches and the chain starts to wear out.

from my own experience, having a chain and cassette that work well together are fairly important.
once the chain starts to wear out, it's more finicky than an all shimano drive train.

HillRider

Exactly what did you "mix"? Do your Veloce levers shift an otherwise Shimano drivetrain, say a Shimano derailleur and cassette? I've always found all-Shimano and all-Campy groups easy to set up and adjust. One bike with Campy 10-speed brifters and all-Shimano everything else was also easy to install and adjust using a Jtek Shiftmate to make them cooperate.

Ex Pres 

I'm assuming you're using the Shimergo/hubbub cable routing as espoused on the ctc.org.uk website?
If so, you really are using "math is fun" as your guide.

fietsbob

Shimano is doing great, a corporation, country sized their components are produced by the billions.
fitted on most bikes sold in the world.

Tiagra is one of the price levels, to equip a bike, aimed at a well below Pro level wallet.

HillRider

True but it works and works well. There should be no real difficulty setting it up and getting it to shift properly.

pdlamb

Welcome to the wonderful world of Campagnono!

I've used a Campy 9 shifter/derailer for a while, and once it's set up, never had any problems until the levers needed to be rebuilt. Great way to go. If Shimano weren't heavily infected with "Not Invented Here" I think they would have licensed the Campy shifters a long time ago.

I put on some 10-speed shifters and Shimano derailer while the levers were off being rebuilt the last time, along with a Jtek Shiftmate. That combination is almost enough to push me back to STI shifters, except I've got the 9-speed in reserve. I must be doing something wrong, because I have a heck of a time getting the Shiftmate dialed in, and it never seems to last for more than a month before something needs tweaking.

joejack951

Perhaps your skills have improved in setting up shifters? You must have learned something during your previous "hour or two long finicky adjustments session." Or you are forgetting that your original session also included setting the high and low limit screws on the deraillers which for me is always the more cumbersome task.

fietsbob

there is amazingly little that is needed out of the box , the line workers in Asia,
do an amazing amount of prep in the process of getting the parts on,
then packing and padding.

Owner banging things around, in use, is a different variable..

Puget Pounder

I don't understand this thread at all. The process for setting up Shimano and Campagnolo is the same. Thread cable, route cable, clamp cable, tension. Exactly the same for the rear, maybe not the same for the front, but not an extra 2 hours.

HillRider

I expect you are. My experience says they work very well and are very stable.

I used my first Shiftmate with a #2 pulley to allow 10-speed Ergos to shift a 9-speed Shimano cassette with a Shimano rd. It worked flawlessly for thousand and thousands of miles with no unusual tweaking or adjustments necessary. Certainly no more than the standard new cable bedding adjustments needed with any derailleur system and identical to my experience with all-Campy and all-Shimano drivetrains.

When the 9-speed cassette and chain were due for replacement, I substituted a 10-speed Shimano cassette and switched the pulley on the Shiftmate to the appropriate one (#3) and this arrangement is now 6,000 miles old and still shifting great. Following initial cable adjustment, shifting tweaks have been nearly nil in that time also.

DCB0

As long as the derailleur hanger is properly aligned and the cables are in good condition, Shimano rear derailleurs can usually be set up in a minute or less.

joejack951

Including setting the limit screws? I must be doing something wrong too

cyccommute 

What is the problem with limit screws? I usually find that they don't need too much adjustment right out of the box and, if they do, it takes only minor tweaking to get them set. DCBO is correct that it takes very little time to set up a Shimano rear derailer. It doesn't take all that much time to set up a front one properly either.

joejack951

I don't have a problem with them but under a minute to fully set up a rear derailler? I'm not nearly that quick. I can usually eyeball the screws and get them pretty close to perfect but I always end up tweaking a bit after connecting the cable and doing some tension adjustment. Maybe 5 minutes total.

HillRider

I set the limit screws before connecting the rear derailleur cable by shifting the derailleur by hand while turmning the crank. If it goes into the smallest cog solidly but with out spilling the chain when I let the spring shift it fast, it will not require any further adjustment. Same with the low limit adjustment. Turn the crank and shove the derailleur against the stop quickly. It should shift reliably into the big cog but never over shift. Once those two conditions are met, the limit screw settings are done.

DCB0

If the cables are already cut to a reasonable length and are in good condition, and the chain is in good condition (like, say, when assembling a new bike), the derailleur should not take more than 5 minutes to set up. For those who have worked in a shop assembling or repairing bikes the under-a-minute statement should hold true.

I also find it interesting that so many people are so mystified by limit screws, and how often they get adjusted to attempt to fix a problem completely unrelated to limits! As Hillrider says, set them up before the cable is attached (~15 seconds)... you will likely never need to adjust them ever again.

joejack951

I'll give that a try next time. Seems like a nice approach that eliminates the need to eyeball the adjustment so much. Thanks for the tip!