Again

Yes, my LBS does it for $7.00, which is less than the shipping cost from Park Tool. Just a nuisance not to be able to do simple tasks yourself. I wish I could buy the tool locally.

Camilo

Are you sure you can't find the tool locally? They're very common and cheap. They are almost always available on the ubiquitous Park Tool display rack that most bike shops have - or behind the parts counter.

Of course you'll need a torque wrench too (or do like countless people and give it a good firm tightening with a 9" wrench and you'll probably be OK.... I did that for years, but now use a torque wrench because I have one).

I really think you're being overly critical. I don't see it so much as irreputable about how that cassette came. I just see it as you being unfamiliar with how a cassette goes on. Now that you've done it, you'll probably agree that it's likely that packaging really isn't critical because there's only one way the parts can go on anyway. Having received the first cassette I ever bought "properly" packaged and assembled on the post, I think that like me, you probably would have the same difficulty because it pretty much comes apart in pieces when you take it off the post. Yea, you'd have had something to look at, but maybe you wouldjn't have done so (like me) and would have had to figure it out and/or look it up online to get it on properly.

Either way, you would have had to get help here, on a website or from your LBS because you weren't familiar with the cassette, the tool and how to use it. I'm not faulting you for not being able to do it and having to learn, btdt in spades. It's not the packaging fault though.

PS: just spent a great week cycling in OR, over McKenzie pass out to the coast and then some riding out there. Oregon is the best place in the world, especially when sunny and warm!

Again

Maybe so, Camilo. But then I would have had no reason to ***** (Ok, this was supposed to be ("b i t c h"), because it would have been my own fault for not taking note how it fits together. This way I never had a chance, which was frustrating me.
Either way, if there is a next time I shall know - unless the damn technology gets changed again!

Jeff Wills

No doubt you can. I buy lots of stuff online from Bike Tools Etc: https://www.biketoolsetc.com/, which is in Ashland, 15 miles from you. If you want to see how it's done, check out courses at United Bicycle Institute: https://www.bikeschool.com/ , also in Ashland. You are very, very close to some good resources for bicycle repair.

Once you've bought the tool, you'll use it. For one, it makes it easy to thoroughly clean the cassette. Some of my bike tools are 30 years old, yet still work perfectly. Good tools are always a wise investment.

Again

Good point, and thanks for that tip in Ashland!

cmill189

How many possible ways did you think it could be assembled? Biggest -> Smallest -> Lockring, all evenly spaced. The two loose cogs installed upside down should have been an immediate red flag....

I can't imagine your reaction had you bought a loose cog cassette.

Again

That would be what one expects, and what I tried in all possible combinations. But without the knowledge that the two last sprockets only fit when placed onto the hub you could fiddle for eternity and scratch your head. All puzzles look simple after being explained!

"installed"? They came loose in a plastic bag!

In such a case I certainly would have expected loose cogs. I am not a stupid man, just a first time buyer. Did you guess all these mysteries when first exposed to them?
I am really glad that there usually are reaonable and helpful members in here who have useful advice, rather than making one feel stupid.

HillRider

The packaging you bought really wasn't intended for the "first time purchaser", it was for the experienced mechanic who realizes how these things go together (which now includes you) and buys on price, not on convenience. Most new buyers obtain their components from a bike shop and either get retail packaging or ask the bike shop to install the part.

You are by no means alone in this. We get dozens of threads from riders who buy things from e-bay and have NO idea what they have or how it works. At least you were quite a bit beyond that level since you knew what to ask.

BTW, a lockring tool is cheap, durable and essential. It's one tool any multi-speed bike owner who want to do their own mechanical work needs. A decent chain tool is another.

fotoflojoe

I'd be shocked if you *couldn't* buy one locally.
I'd be shocked if your LBS didn't have them for sale.

I actually bought one this morning at my LBS for $5.95 (Park FR-5).
I've also seen them at most other shops in my area.

If there's an upside to all of this, it's that from reading this thread *before* I removed my own cassette, I learned that I'd likely encounter at least a couple loose cogs, not to be shocked about that, and keep track of them for reinstall.
Thanks!

Again

I will stop by and ask, in any case. I thought they may not want to sell the tool, but rather sell the service. If I could get it here for what you paid I would love it!

fotoflojoe

Honestly, if an LBS that I dealt with took that approach, I'd go looking for a new LBS!

But that's a whole 'nother conversation...

JanMM

I put a new Performance/Forte 9spd cassette on my bike recently - wouldn't slide on all the way because one of the cogs needed some help with a file to fit. Had to remove the screws holding the 7 cogs together to figure out the problem and to get at the very-slightly-bad cog. (It's lighter without the screws!)
I've never used a torque wrench on cassette lock rings but do tighten them pretty tight. What kind of torque wrench is used with a lockring tool?

Again

Well, yes. But I won't accuse them until after I find out. If my two LBS don't sell tools I am just out of luck.

HillRider

I use a 1/2"-square drive beam type torque wrench (Craftsman) and a 1" socket with my Park FR-5 tool or a 15/16" socket with the Shimano TL-HG16 tool (I don't have the proper 24 mm socket but the 15/16" fits fine).

I have accessory centerpins in both tools to keep them in place under load for either removing or installing the lockring. I have also used a qr skewer to hold it in place before I got the centerpin versions.

joejack951

Most importantly, you need a torque wrench that can reach at least 40 N*m (30 ft.*lbs.) for Shimano cassettes and apparently a bit more for Campagnolo (50 N*m based on a quick Google search). I use my 3/8" drive torque wrench for this as my 1/2" drive starts at 25 ft.*lbs. and I trust it less that low in it's range (it goes up to 250 ft.*lbs.). Since my 1" drive socket is a 1/2" drive impact socket (originally bought to use with some automotive suspension tools), I use a 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapter as well.

The short story is don't buy a 1/4" drive torque wrench and expect to be able to tighten cassette lockrings properly.

JanMM

I have a click type 1/2 inch torque wrench. I just need to get a 1" socket and give that a try.

FastJake

The LBSs around here are mostly useless for anything I want. Everytime I go in I always get "well, we can order that..." But as far as I know, ALL of them carry cassette lockring tools. That's where I bought mine, for about $6 if I remember correctly.

Good tools are always a good investment. (And cheap tools are always a waste of money.)

Again

That's encouraging, I hope to be as lucky here.

BikeWise1

Q: OMG. I ordered a dead chicken to eat, but it just came in a bag. Shouldn't it already be cooked or something? I would think a first time buyer would just be able to take it out of the bag and eat it, but it doesn't seem to be working.....

A: You need a few special tools, like maybe an oven of some kind. You have to make it hot.

Q: Why? Why doesn't it already come hot?

A: Well, you can get a chicken already hot, but it costs more and you have to get it locally.

Q: Crap.


These kinds of threads amuse me to no end.....

Want instructions and pretty packaging? Then don't buy gray market parts! They're packed that way to save resources not needed by OE bike assemblers- you know, instructions and a pretty box.

Mondoman

O - pick up one of Lennard Zinn's bicycle repair and maintenance books, or one of Todd Downs' similar books -- each describes the various technologies and standards used for diferent bike parts, shows the tools needed for different procedures, and each is likely to be available in your local library if you don't want to help out Jeff Bezos. I've found that sometimes the counter person at a bike shop doesn't know the details of the different tools they sell, so figuring out in advance what I need (sometimes down to the part number) has been a big help.

Again

BikeWise, we are glad to got amused.
Do you have anything constructive to contribute as well?

Mondoman

Also, my understanding was that "gray market" items were items sold in a different area or channel from the normal retail channel, while "OEM packaged" items were the plain/minimal packaging versions, often without instructions or some accessories.

Again

Thanks, I'll check it out!

jds108

So when do we talk about the chainwhip that will be necessary when trying to remove the cassette? That should be interesting.

Juha

I see jds108 beat me to it.

Again, you can tighten the locknut with just the lockring tool and a wrench. Opening the locknut (for cleaning, replacing spokes, whatever) will be more difficult, because the whole cassette turns freely in that direction, together with the lockring. You need something to hold the cassette in place while you crank the lockring open, and your hands won't do it. That's what a chainwhip is for. If you buy a lockring tool, buy a chainwhip as well.