I would think that if anyone here on the forums had a set it would be iab.

No "ifs", "buts" or "maybes", this is the way to go. I did just this on my Panasonic frankenbike and was startled by how much weight I took off.

There may be some high-end light-weight cottered cranks that were manufactured back in the day but the odds of the OP having one of these are slim to none. Tossing this crankset in favor of an aluminum one will give you the best bang for the buck when it comes to reducing weight.

Do this and it will feel like you've gotten a new bike.

While on this subject..
 

Can any of you share your sources for decent quality
cotter pins for cranks in the various dimensions?

Other than Bikesmith, who seems to be doing it out of
a sense of public service, I'm having a very hard time
sourcing these for the local bike coop.:(

Thanks for any assist.:thumb:

There are not really any others besides Bikesmith that sell regularly to the public. Cheap cotters deform easily as I hear, so I just spend the money for the good ones.

j&b is the place to get stuff for old bikes. as far as cotters go they are all about the same from the different suppliers.

Everybody realizes the OP is talking about a pretty low end bike, right? Plain tubing, chrome spoke protector, brake extension levers... It's close to 30 pounds. Chances are that even if he does decide to replace the crank, he's going to use something cheap, and it's not going to be much lighter. There are quite a few modern aluminum cranks that can actually be heavier. And even if he does manage to shave a couple of hundred grams, is that really going to make it "feel like a new bike"?

I swear, some of you guys must have been beaten with cottered cranks as children.

Naaah, as a kid all of my bikes had Ashtabula cranks which made even crude cottered cranks seem like featherweights. I just don't see the benefit of getting tools and parts to salvage what is a deservedly obsolete design.

Actually, I suspect the clunking cranks on department store bikes of the 60s and 70s have a lot to do with the bias. It's a shame so many folk have never been able to enjoy properly functioning cottered cranks.

At any rate, the tool is fifty bucks. A 15 mm wrench and crank puller from Park run about thirty bucks total, leaving our man with a $20 budget for replacement cranks. So I'm not buying the cost argument either. :p

I'm with Hillrider that the tools is too expensive for an a non-shop situation. Fortunately, one can remove and install cotters effectively without spending that much.

Besides using a hammer and dolly, which so many are reluctant to do, a cotter can easily be removed or installed with a bench vise and piece of scrap metal. Improvise or scrounge a spacer able to fit over the protruding end of the pin and taller so the pin is recessed. Remove the nut, and place the crank arm in a vise, with the spacer providing room for the pin to move and crank. Poof the pin is out. Reverse the process to install. Use the $50.00 to take your wife out for the evening.

Now is a good time to replace that cottered crank with a cotterless crank. I personally haven't done one, but read up on it and its no problem as long as the replacment has the same threads as orginial. Peugeots require French Threads. Most others are English. Just a matter of removing the crank and bearings and replacing with similar chain rings and crank and updated cotterless crank. I have a peugeot that would love to do that with. Everytime you regrease the bearing in the crank the cotter pins should be replaced. That extra expense , plus a less efficient design is reason enough to lose the cottered crank system. If you had a parts bike or access to one it wouldn't cost anything. Asking a shop to do it would be big bucks

I do not advise to hammer them out, but I do this all the time (on a low grade russian bike from the 70's that is built like a tank, the BB is tough too, i never managed to break it by hammering without support - because i never had a third hand to hold the crank, hold the pipe and strike with hammer)

Most of the time a hammer solves everything with no harm* in less than a second.

*seriously do not hammer a top tier vintage rare bike and its cotter cranks, it hurts more psychological not that is likely to damage something aside aesthetics (if you miss) and a mangled cotter pin (if you're not straight on the blow). Use this on average-low beaters.

My 2cents: given the condition, use some sort of press if you have, or a bench vise if you have, or a hammer with a pipe to support the crank, (or without support but this can hurt the BB even if I have never managed to do so) - do not spend any money, use what you have and you can get your job done in a matter of minutes.

it's a question of economics, a few dollars and a bit to time to fix what he has vs. spending more than the bike might be worth for an upgrade that isn't necessary.

There's also the issue of compatibility. Depending on when and where this bike was built it might have a 26tpi bottom bracket (Nottingham built bikes thru the early seventies). In that case he won't find a BB for it that easily, and if he misses that detail could end up stripping the shell and have made scrap when all that was needed was a simple repair correctly executed.

In the Ops shoes, I'd either fix this bike for a few dollars, or pass and put the money toward a better platform before I bought a new crankset and BB.

+100 I absolutely agree with this, its an old outdated bike that needs work and the money that I would put into it to get it ridable isn't worth it in my opinion. This bike has been sitting for years and needs the following parts

all cables and housing
brake shoes
spoke on rear wheel (drive side of course)
tires
tubes
rim liners

I don't have the freewheel tool to remove a large size milliard freewheel so I will check at the co-op for that before going to the bike shop.

But this is about $70 for parts and when I am done it is still a cheap bike that isn't worth $70. And that is what I will tell my friend to see if he want to really spend the money that way. He already has a older road bike and is looking for a new bike this year, so my opinion is to donate it to the co-op and get on with the new bike.

+1. Cottered cranks are the most miserable pieces of **** in the world. If you put the time into cottered cranks, filing pins, using a hammer, buying an expensive press, etc. than you hate yourself and will most likely die poor and alone.

I'm not advocating a return to cottered cranks, but this post greatly exaggerates the "problems". I think it's more the result of unfamiliarity, than a legitimate technical issue. As I think back on it, I'm reminded that they probably create fewer problems than their cotterless replacements. How many cottered cranks ever needed replacement because the spindle interface (taper or spline) got distorted, and they couldn't be tightened anymore.

Back when I started in retail we sold thousands of cotter crank bikes. Unless someone took them apart we never saw any come back with loose crank issues. Ask any dealer how often he sees crank issues now.

I'm not being a retro grouch, and readily admit that we're enjoying lighter crank/BB systems today, but on my opinion, the anti-cotter posts like this one are uncalled for

It's called for. The last set of cottered cranks I worked on had each of the problems I listed ('73 Raleigh 3-speed) and was therefore not an exaggeration. You could have avoided filing the pins, but then your cranks would have been like 170 degrees apart. If you grabbed both crank arms you could probably feel the play as well. Then, riding them 5 miles would create either play or would move the position of the crank again.

They suck -- period. They're never worth messing with, and any potential bike that has them should immediately have them removed as a first priority. Other than learning to drive the pins out and remove the cups before trashing the entire unit, I don't even see the value in a mechanic learning to "work on them" -- (which basically means bashing on things with a hammer, maybe using a punch, and using a metal file to do a cheesy job of filing straight.

It's like trying to learn to hit knuckle balls in baseball -- you could learn it, but you might ruin your swing for life. Why bother with it?

Has it ever occurred that the problem lay not in the cranks, but in your own ability to work on them properly? The hardest thing about servicing cottered cranks is the unavailability of decent cotters in the right diameters. Visit any bike co-op or metropolitan bike shop where they work on these daily, and you'll find mechanics familiar with them and have none of the problems you had.

Correct. Except replace "the unavailability of decent cotters in the right diameters" with "that they suck ass".

I realize that they can work, etc. and yes this is just a bit of devil's advocate....no harm no foul ;). I hate any bike job that requires you to reach for a hammer.

Yes, I understand that cotters have frustrated you in the past, and you're certainly entitled you own opinion. But that's a far cry from a general indictment of a system that has worked well for almost a century.

On the flip side, how many posts do we see about crank removal threads being stripped, or the spindle interface getting loose. The reality is that cotterless cranks are actually more finicky than cottered. Also imagine the frustration that someone well skilled with cotters would have when faced with a cotterless system for which he didn't have an extractor. At least hammers are generally available anywhere in the world.

Note I'm not saying cotters are better, just that they get a bad rap because the knowledge about servicing them has been lost. Some time soon, I wouldn't be surprised to read that Quill stems suck, for the same reason.

?? There are a number of postings on this very thread
that instruct you how to service these without a hammer.

Personally, though, I really like hitting stuff with a big assed
hammer, because you know the problem is gonna be resolved
once and for all......... also works out aggression.:o

With the proper tools and a properly maintained bike, none of your objections is an issue.

I used to share TurbineBlade's objections to cottered cranks. Then I actually learned how to work on them.

I like cottered cranks. They're a pleasure to work on if you have the right tools and you use quality cotters.

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/40...600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/46...600x600Q85.jpg

I have to admit that that it is a very attractive crank.

If the bike is being overhauled for flipping purposes by all means fix it cheap and turn it over. If its something you want for yourself, upgrade the BB, but don't spend to much on that bike. It not worth much. May be better to invest in a bike for $200 or more that has a cotterless crank. Save yourself some future frustration.