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-   -   Largest sprocket for Campy derailleur Record 1981 (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/800622-largest-sprocket-campy-derailleur-record-1981-a.html)

radarek 02-23-12 09:33 PM

Largest sprocket for Campy derailleur Record 1981
 
I wanted to install a new freewheel on my 1981 Cinelli, it has a 1981 Record derailleur. I wanted to know what's the largest sprocket that this derailleur can accommodate. I've asked one shop and they told me possible 30 teeth. But I wanted to confirm this again before I make the purchase.

onespeedbiker 02-23-12 09:43 PM

If its a Nuovo Record it's rated at 26T if it's a Super Record it's 28T. Note the max cog on these derailleurs were dependent on the outside cage plate and they are intercahangeable. If you can scrounge a Super Record outside cage plate it will bolt right on our Nuovo record and you can pick-up 2t.

radarek 02-23-12 09:57 PM

Hi onespeedbiker, thanks for your prompt reply. I think my derailleur is really Super Record, because at one time I've used (till I destroyed it when disassembling) my Regina freewheel that had 28T sprocket. How much such a plate can cost and where should I look to get it. At age of 68+ I'm trying to get the lowest gear I can for the hilly centuries, like the SCCC. I even got a third (custom) chainring in front with 36T done by Al Budris many years ago when he was an owner of CycleCraft a bike store in Cupertino, CA. He was amazing guy.

cyclist2000 02-23-12 10:04 PM

If you consider a new derailleur the new campy ones can take a 29 tooth

FBinNY 02-23-12 10:46 PM

I used an old Nuovo Record with a 29t cassette for years with no problem. But setting up Campy derailleurs with large cassettes can be a bit tricky. Campy cages are mounted between the pulleys. That means that the jockey wheel can be higher or lower depending on chain length. That means the chain has to be measured carefully so the cage is pulled forward bringing the jockey wheel down on the larger sprockets.

Henry III 02-23-12 11:32 PM

You could swap on a Rally cage and probably get up to a 34T. I cut out some Rally cages I drew up in Autocad out of stainless and aluminum on a waterjet. It's another option instead of pushing the limits of your NR derailleur.

Charles Ramsey 02-24-12 07:19 PM

http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ih_grubb.htm Ian Hibell used a 31 on the rear he said it ran on the ragged edge of good performance. I never tried this with a Campagnolo but on Shimano and Sun Tour you can use a larger gear by pulling the derailer back either by tying the cable to a fender strut or I saw one person use a spring.

onespeedbiker 02-25-12 12:44 AM


Originally Posted by radarek (Post 13890755)
Hi onespeedbiker, thanks for your prompt reply. I think my derailleur is really Super Record, because at one time I've used (till I destroyed it when disassembling) my Regina freewheel that had 28T sprocket. How much such a plate can cost and where should I look to get it. At age of 68+ I'm trying to get the lowest gear I can for the hilly centuries, like the SCCC. I even got a third (custom) chainring in front with 36T done by Al Budris many years ago when he was an owner of CycleCraft a bike store in Cupertino, CA. He was amazing guy.

26T was just a minimum max cog, depending how long the derailleur hanger was and as FBinNY said you can play with the chain length. If you derailleur was a Super Record it would have said Super Record not Nuovo Record. From the 1960's through the 1980's Campagnolo made basically four rear derailleurs, the Nuovo Record, Super Record, Gran Sport and Ralley (3450 & 3550 & 3450 NG). Pretty much all the parts of these three models were interchangeable. If you check ebay you will find Super Record Cages or a Super Record derailleur which you can use or just swap the cages; I've the this exchang with both NR and Nuovo Gran Sport http://vintagecampagnoloforum.blogsp...age-super.html I would not try the same thing with a Rally however. The first generation Rally (3450) worked very well, but had a drop parallelogram. Campy fanatics cringed at the drop parallelogram, looking too much like the Japanese slant parallelogram, so it was scraped for a non-drop parallelogram version (3550), which resulted in one of the worst shifting rear derailleurs Campy ever made. They finally
reinstated a New Generation 3450 with a return to the drop parallelogram, but it had a limited run and didn't even show in the catalogs. As it had already being replaced with Triomphe/Victory LX models.

Anyway to make a long story even longer, if you want some extra love in the max cog department, and you want to stay in the Nuovo Record era a 3450 derailleur is your best bet. However, if you move a few years up to C-Record there are a lot of better choices. The Triomphe/Victory LX take a 32T but they are very hard to find. Better a standard Victory (version 3/ 30T max); you'll know if from the earlier versions because it has the Campagnolo script across the front, while the others just have the Campy shield and are the ugliest things Campy ever made http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-V...item2a19474db9. The C-Record Campy also introduced, with the exception of the Triomphe, a "b angle" adjustment, making to easier to dial in larger cogs. The Victory has a Max cog of 30T (the LX-32T). There are also C-Record era Athena and Chorus; Athena (30T) has the same b adjustment bushing gizmo as the Victory (if you decide to buy one make sure it's there as they are not available as a spare part). The Chorus is the first drop parallelogram since Rally and has an A or B mode. The A mode is for a straight pull parallelogram with a 30T max and a B mode that creates the first slant parallelogram Campagnolo ever designed (32T) and became the prototype for Campy's future slant parallelogram derailleurs; it also included the first bolt adjusted B angle adjuster by Campy.

JohnDThompson 02-25-12 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by Charles Ramsey (Post 13894758)
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ih_grubb.htm Ian Hibell used a 31 on the rear he said it ran on the ragged edge of good performance. I never tried this with a Campagnolo but on Shimano and Sun Tour you can use a larger gear by pulling the derailer back either by tying the cable to a fender strut or I saw one person use a spring.

With the long-slot model 1010 dropouts such as those on Hibell's bike, you can often position the wheel in the slot such that the derailleur will clear a 30 or 31T cog:

http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...files/fg04.jpg

JohnDThompson 02-25-12 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by onespeedbiker (Post 13895666)
Anyway to make a long story even longer, if you want some extra love in the max cog department, and you want to stay in the Nuovo Record era a 3450 derailleur is your best bet. However, if you move a few years up to C-Record there are a lot of better choices. The Triomphe/Victory LX take a 32T but they are very hard to find. Better a standard Victory (version 3/ 30T max); you'll know if from the earlier versions because it has the Campagnolo script across the front, while the others just have the Campy shield and are the ugliest things Campy ever made http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-V...item2a19474db9. The C-Record Campy also introduced, with the exception of the Triomphe, a "b angle" adjustment, making to easier to dial in larger cogs. The Victory has a Max cog of 30T (the LX-32T). There are also C-Record era Athena and Chorus; Athena (30T) has the same b adjustment bushing gizmo as the Victory (if you decide to buy one make sure it's there as they are not available as a spare part). The Chorus is the first drop parallelogram since Rally and has an A or B mode. The A mode is for a straight pull parallelogram with a 30T max and a B mode that creates the first slant parallelogram Campagnolo ever designed (32T) and became the prototype for Campy's future slant parallelogram derailleurs; it also included the first bolt adjusted B angle adjuster by Campy.

If you're willing to step out of the Nuovo/Super Record era, by the late 80s Campy was making an off-road group that included an elegant long-cage derailleur that incorporated the Simplex sprung upper pivot and Shimano dropped parallelogram (as did the original Rally) but also the SunTour slant parallelogram that allowed the upper pulley to better track the freewheel cogs:

http://velobase.com/CompImages/RDera...5F2BEAA78.jpeg

onespeedbiker 02-25-12 02:15 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 13896243)
If you're willing to step out of the Nuovo/Super Record era, by the late 80s Campy was making an off-road group that included an elegant long-cage derailleur that incorporated the Simplex sprung upper pivot and Shimano dropped parallelogram (as did the original Rally) but also the SunTour slant parallelogram that allowed the upper pulley to better track the freewheel cogs:

http://velobase.com/CompImages/RDera...5F2BEAA78.jpeg

The original Rally was not a slant parallelogram; this a very common misnomer. There is a difference between a drop parallelogram and slant parallelogram. Suntour had a closely guarded patent on the slant parrellegram from 1964 to 1984 and no other derailleurs utilized the slant parallelogram design except Suntour. Campy didn't even get in the game until 1988. The Icarus derailleur (1992) you show is indeed a slant parallelogram. Yes I know that Classic Rendezvous says that the Rally was a slant parallelogram

"The first edition Rally was controversial in Italy as the slant parallogram style seemed to mimic Japanese derailleur design,
which was unacceptable to many Italians!" "1980s: new Rally with a different body, no longer slant parallelogram (less effective design)"
but they are wrong. Compare the Icarus to the 2 3450 Rallys I am posting. A drop parallelogram lowers the derailleur and turns it sideways, but as with all straight parallelograms the face if straight and not canted up or down. In order to incorporate the slant parallelogram, the parallelogram must be slanted downward, so the face plate of the derailleur is canted upward as with the Icarus. There is a little bit more information on this in this post http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ret...am-254759.html

JohnDThompson 02-25-12 05:53 PM


Originally Posted by onespeedbiker (Post 13897167)
Suntour had a closely guarded patent on the slant parrellegram from 1964 to 1984 and no other derailleurs utilized the slant parallelogram design except Suntour.

FWIW, in the early 70s, the original Lambert rear derailleur had a slant parallelogram as well:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...RHarris_L2.jpg

onespeedbiker 02-25-12 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 13897859)
FWIW, in the early 70s, the original Lambert rear derailleur had a slant parallelogram as well:

Congradulations you have one of the few that were sold before Suntour made them stop. But of course you know that

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 9375683)
The original Lambert rear derailleurs were pulled fairly quickly when SunTour objected to their use of their patented "slant parallelogram" design.


radarek 02-28-12 12:52 AM

Thanks to all for the kind and practical replies. In the meantime I'll stick with the 28T sprocket and invest a little bit more time in hill riding to improve my climbing skills. It's really a pleasure to be a member of such a knowledgeable friendly and enthusiastic group!

Bianchigirll 02-28-12 09:00 AM

14 posts and no one asked for pics? I would love to pics of the bike and that 36t chainring, is that on a regular Campi Record crankset?


All this talk about going to the extremes on the rear cog... does that take into account having a 'standard' 42/52 setup in front or something else? if you getting away with a 31t cog in the back but sporting a half step 42/46 or 48/52 in front that may be misleading.

Radarek Welcome to the forums!! I hope my biggest concern at 65 is getting over a few hills on a century.


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