Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Largest sprocket for Campy derailleur Record 1981

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Largest sprocket for Campy derailleur Record 1981

Old 02-23-12, 09:33 PM
  #1  
radarek
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Largest sprocket for Campy derailleur Record 1981

I wanted to install a new freewheel on my 1981 Cinelli, it has a 1981 Record derailleur. I wanted to know what's the largest sprocket that this derailleur can accommodate. I've asked one shop and they told me possible 30 teeth. But I wanted to confirm this again before I make the purchase.
radarek is offline  
Old 02-23-12, 09:43 PM
  #2  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If its a Nuovo Record it's rated at 26T if it's a Super Record it's 28T. Note the max cog on these derailleurs were dependent on the outside cage plate and they are intercahangeable. If you can scrounge a Super Record outside cage plate it will bolt right on our Nuovo record and you can pick-up 2t.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-23-12, 09:57 PM
  #3  
radarek
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi onespeedbiker, thanks for your prompt reply. I think my derailleur is really Super Record, because at one time I've used (till I destroyed it when disassembling) my Regina freewheel that had 28T sprocket. How much such a plate can cost and where should I look to get it. At age of 68+ I'm trying to get the lowest gear I can for the hilly centuries, like the SCCC. I even got a third (custom) chainring in front with 36T done by Al Budris many years ago when he was an owner of CycleCraft a bike store in Cupertino, CA. He was amazing guy.
radarek is offline  
Old 02-23-12, 10:04 PM
  #4  
cyclist2000
Senior Member
 
cyclist2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Up
Posts: 4,430

Bikes: Masi, Giant TCR, Eisentraut (retired), Jamis Aurora Elite, Zullo, Cannondale, 84 Stumpjumper, Waterford, Tern D8, Bianchi, Gunner Roadie, Serotta, and looking for a Brompton M6R

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 420 Posts
If you consider a new derailleur the new campy ones can take a 29 tooth
cyclist2000 is offline  
Old 02-23-12, 10:46 PM
  #5  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4366 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 31 Posts
I used an old Nuovo Record with a 29t cassette for years with no problem. But setting up Campy derailleurs with large cassettes can be a bit tricky. Campy cages are mounted between the pulleys. That means that the jockey wheel can be higher or lower depending on chain length. That means the chain has to be measured carefully so the cage is pulled forward bringing the jockey wheel down on the larger sprockets.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 02-23-12, 11:32 PM
  #6  
Henry III
is just a real cool dude
 
Henry III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Thumb, MI
Posts: 3,167
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 9 Posts
You could swap on a Rally cage and probably get up to a 34T. I cut out some Rally cages I drew up in Autocad out of stainless and aluminum on a waterjet. It's another option instead of pushing the limits of your NR derailleur.
Henry III is offline  
Old 02-24-12, 07:19 PM
  #7  
Charles Ramsey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
https://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ih_grubb.htm Ian Hibell used a 31 on the rear he said it ran on the ragged edge of good performance. I never tried this with a Campagnolo but on Shimano and Sun Tour you can use a larger gear by pulling the derailer back either by tying the cable to a fender strut or I saw one person use a spring.
 
Old 02-25-12, 12:44 AM
  #8  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by radarek View Post
Hi onespeedbiker, thanks for your prompt reply. I think my derailleur is really Super Record, because at one time I've used (till I destroyed it when disassembling) my Regina freewheel that had 28T sprocket. How much such a plate can cost and where should I look to get it. At age of 68+ I'm trying to get the lowest gear I can for the hilly centuries, like the SCCC. I even got a third (custom) chainring in front with 36T done by Al Budris many years ago when he was an owner of CycleCraft a bike store in Cupertino, CA. He was amazing guy.
26T was just a minimum max cog, depending how long the derailleur hanger was and as FBinNY said you can play with the chain length. If you derailleur was a Super Record it would have said Super Record not Nuovo Record. From the 1960's through the 1980's Campagnolo made basically four rear derailleurs, the Nuovo Record, Super Record, Gran Sport and Ralley (3450 & 3550 & 3450 NG). Pretty much all the parts of these three models were interchangeable. If you check ebay you will find Super Record Cages or a Super Record derailleur which you can use or just swap the cages; I've the this exchang with both NR and Nuovo Gran Sport https://vintagecampagnoloforum.blogsp...age-super.html I would not try the same thing with a Rally however. The first generation Rally (3450) worked very well, but had a drop parallelogram. Campy fanatics cringed at the drop parallelogram, looking too much like the Japanese slant parallelogram, so it was scraped for a non-drop parallelogram version (3550), which resulted in one of the worst shifting rear derailleurs Campy ever made. They finally
reinstated a New Generation 3450 with a return to the drop parallelogram, but it had a limited run and didn't even show in the catalogs. As it had already being replaced with Triomphe/Victory LX models.

Anyway to make a long story even longer, if you want some extra love in the max cog department, and you want to stay in the Nuovo Record era a 3450 derailleur is your best bet. However, if you move a few years up to C-Record there are a lot of better choices. The Triomphe/Victory LX take a 32T but they are very hard to find. Better a standard Victory (version 3/ 30T max); you'll know if from the earlier versions because it has the Campagnolo script across the front, while the others just have the Campy shield and are the ugliest things Campy ever made https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-V...item2a19474db9. The C-Record Campy also introduced, with the exception of the Triomphe, a "b angle" adjustment, making to easier to dial in larger cogs. The Victory has a Max cog of 30T (the LX-32T). There are also C-Record era Athena and Chorus; Athena (30T) has the same b adjustment bushing gizmo as the Victory (if you decide to buy one make sure it's there as they are not available as a spare part). The Chorus is the first drop parallelogram since Rally and has an A or B mode. The A mode is for a straight pull parallelogram with a 30T max and a B mode that creates the first slant parallelogram Campagnolo ever designed (32T) and became the prototype for Campy's future slant parallelogram derailleurs; it also included the first bolt adjusted B angle adjuster by Campy.

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 02-25-12 at 01:44 PM.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-25-12, 09:06 AM
  #9  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,695

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked 1,300 Times in 813 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Ramsey View Post
https://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ih_grubb.htm Ian Hibell used a 31 on the rear he said it ran on the ragged edge of good performance. I never tried this with a Campagnolo but on Shimano and Sun Tour you can use a larger gear by pulling the derailer back either by tying the cable to a fender strut or I saw one person use a spring.
With the long-slot model 1010 dropouts such as those on Hibell's bike, you can often position the wheel in the slot such that the derailleur will clear a 30 or 31T cog:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-25-12, 09:16 AM
  #10  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,695

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked 1,300 Times in 813 Posts
Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
Anyway to make a long story even longer, if you want some extra love in the max cog department, and you want to stay in the Nuovo Record era a 3450 derailleur is your best bet. However, if you move a few years up to C-Record there are a lot of better choices. The Triomphe/Victory LX take a 32T but they are very hard to find. Better a standard Victory (version 3/ 30T max); you'll know if from the earlier versions because it has the Campagnolo script across the front, while the others just have the Campy shield and are the ugliest things Campy ever made https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-V...item2a19474db9. The C-Record Campy also introduced, with the exception of the Triomphe, a "b angle" adjustment, making to easier to dial in larger cogs. The Victory has a Max cog of 30T (the LX-32T). There are also C-Record era Athena and Chorus; Athena (30T) has the same b adjustment bushing gizmo as the Victory (if you decide to buy one make sure it's there as they are not available as a spare part). The Chorus is the first drop parallelogram since Rally and has an A or B mode. The A mode is for a straight pull parallelogram with a 30T max and a B mode that creates the first slant parallelogram Campagnolo ever designed (32T) and became the prototype for Campy's future slant parallelogram derailleurs; it also included the first bolt adjusted B angle adjuster by Campy.
If you're willing to step out of the Nuovo/Super Record era, by the late 80s Campy was making an off-road group that included an elegant long-cage derailleur that incorporated the Simplex sprung upper pivot and Shimano dropped parallelogram (as did the original Rally) but also the SunTour slant parallelogram that allowed the upper pulley to better track the freewheel cogs:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-25-12, 02:15 PM
  #11  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
If you're willing to step out of the Nuovo/Super Record era, by the late 80s Campy was making an off-road group that included an elegant long-cage derailleur that incorporated the Simplex sprung upper pivot and Shimano dropped parallelogram (as did the original Rally) but also the SunTour slant parallelogram that allowed the upper pulley to better track the freewheel cogs:

The original Rally was not a slant parallelogram; this a very common misnomer. There is a difference between a drop parallelogram and slant parallelogram. Suntour had a closely guarded patent on the slant parrellegram from 1964 to 1984 and no other derailleurs utilized the slant parallelogram design except Suntour. Campy didn't even get in the game until 1988. The Icarus derailleur (1992) you show is indeed a slant parallelogram. Yes I know that Classic Rendezvous says that the Rally was a slant parallelogram
"The first edition Rally was controversial in Italy as the slant parallogram style seemed to mimic Japanese derailleur design,
which was unacceptable to many Italians!" "1980s: new Rally with a different body, no longer slant parallelogram (less effective design)"
but they are wrong. Compare the Icarus to the 2 3450 Rallys I am posting. A drop parallelogram lowers the derailleur and turns it sideways, but as with all straight parallelograms the face if straight and not canted up or down. In order to incorporate the slant parallelogram, the parallelogram must be slanted downward, so the face plate of the derailleur is canted upward as with the Icarus. There is a little bit more information on this in this post https://forums.roadbikereview.com/ret...am-254759.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg
ralley2.jpeg (37.3 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg
slant1.jpg (93.0 KB, 74 views)

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 02-25-12 at 02:19 PM.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-25-12, 05:53 PM
  #12  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,695

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked 1,300 Times in 813 Posts
Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
Suntour had a closely guarded patent on the slant parrellegram from 1964 to 1984 and no other derailleurs utilized the slant parallelogram design except Suntour.
FWIW, in the early 70s, the original Lambert rear derailleur had a slant parallelogram as well:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-25-12, 07:53 PM
  #13  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
FWIW, in the early 70s, the original Lambert rear derailleur had a slant parallelogram as well:
Congradulations you have one of the few that were sold before Suntour made them stop. But of course you know that
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The original Lambert rear derailleurs were pulled fairly quickly when SunTour objected to their use of their patented "slant parallelogram" design.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-28-12, 12:52 AM
  #14  
radarek
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks to all for the kind and practical replies. In the meantime I'll stick with the 28T sprocket and invest a little bit more time in hill riding to improve my climbing skills. It's really a pleasure to be a member of such a knowledgeable friendly and enthusiastic group!
radarek is offline  
Old 02-28-12, 09:00 AM
  #15  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,448

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 145 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1983 Post(s)
Liked 806 Times in 494 Posts
14 posts and no one asked for pics? I would love to pics of the bike and that 36t chainring, is that on a regular Campi Record crankset?


All this talk about going to the extremes on the rear cog... does that take into account having a 'standard' 42/52 setup in front or something else? if you getting away with a 31t cog in the back but sporting a half step 42/46 or 48/52 in front that may be misleading.

Radarek Welcome to the forums!! I hope my biggest concern at 65 is getting over a few hills on a century.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
WGB
Classic & Vintage
13
06-07-18 02:23 PM
daf1009
Classic & Vintage
1
10-18-13 09:12 PM
b dub
Classic & Vintage
6
07-17-13 10:00 AM
Ed in Toronto
Classic & Vintage
16
06-25-12 05:46 PM
Otis
Classic & Vintage
4
01-22-12 06:21 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.