robbied196

I can't work out if I'm getting old or if new tyres are just a lot less flexible than they used to be!

I've just fitted a pair of 700c Vittoria Rubino's, I always try and fit them by hand and avoid using levers for the last 'tough' bit. But I'm finding its nearly impossible to get them on by hand. I hate using levers because twice now I've got the tyre on, only to realise when I pump them up I've punctured the inner tube in the process.

Is there a proper tool or an easier way?

davidad

https://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...&item_id=KS-TJ

irishbill76

A bit of air in the inner tube before mounting the tyre helps prevent pinch flats. As for tools, use steel tyre levers and not the cheap ones either. Spend money on them or like mine did last night while refitting my Vittoria Randonneurs, the damn things will bend. Meh

RubberLegs

Tire and rim combinations can also make a BIG difference. I have some tire/rim combos that I HAVE to use tools on, others, I can easily do by hand with NO tools. Next time you go for new tires, might have a front wheel along and check the different brands and models to see which one fits easier.

FBinNY 

+1,000

While things are pretty standard as the the true fit size and seating dimensions, other details are much more variable. Rims vary in the depth of the center well, and that affects mounting because it's center well depth that gives you the slack needed at the opposite end.

Also the bead material in today's lighter tires isn't as stretch resistant as the old steel wire beads used to be, so makers compensate by making them a bit smaller to allow for stretch.

Tools like the tire jack will help with mounting, but they don't make it easier to change a flat on the road. So even if you get them mounted some tight tire/rim pairs may leave you stranded if you get a flat. Take the time to find a tire that mounts easily then stick with it. You'll be glad you did when you get a flat on a rainy day (when else).

Delmarva

Yes indeed. And be sure to work the tube up into both the tire and rim as you go and before puling or levering that last stretch of bead over.

dsbrantjr

Using a thinner rim tape will leave more room in the rim for the bead to drop down and create slack. I like Continental Easy Tape. It is thin and slick and helps to ease stretching tight-fitting tires onto the rim.

cny-bikeman

This comes up on a regular basis, so I prepped something ahead of time that hopefully incorporates pretty much all of the most popular techniques.

FOR THE DIFFICULT TIRE



Removal:

1. Push all air possible out of the tube, pressing down on the ground and on several places on the tire with your arms/hands while depressing the valve.
2. Push both tire beads toward the center of the rim well all the way around the rim (to make sure bead has not stuck to the rim)
3. Starting at the area of the rim OPPOSITE the valve, typically where the rim seam or a reflector would be, push one side/bead toward the center of the rim using both thumbs.
4. Using both hands and working in opposite directions with thumbs and palms “scrub” or push the tire toward the center of the rim and toward the valve until you are near the tire valve.
5. You should now be able to more easily use the tire levers to get the bead over the rim. On some tires you may be able to amaze your friends with a tool-less removal!

Installation:

1. Preparation: If you have a thick rubber rim strip consider replacing it with rim tape or a thin vinyl rim strip. A smaller diameter tube may help, but will not make a great difference and will be thinner when inflated. You may put some talc on the tube if desired.
2. Put a small amount of air in the tube, just enough to give it shape, and mount one side/bead of the tire. Some put the tube into the tire before mounting; some mount the 1st bead and then put the tube in. I recommend mounting the tire so that the part of the tire label that shows the recommended pressure is next to the valve and on the right side of the bike (mechanics will thank you) but it’s your choice whether you do that or something else.
3. Starting at the area of the rim OPPOSITE the valve, typically where the seam or reflector would be, push the bead over the rim and toward the center of the rim with your thumbs.
4. Using both hands and working in opposite directions push the bead over the rim edge and toward the center of the rim. If possible, especially at the beginning, use your fingers to push the other bead toward the center of the rim well also.
5. Use your thumbs and palms to push or “scrub” the tire around until you just to one side of the tire valve. This will create the maximum amount of slack. Push any more air that you can out of the tube, the same as with removal, and push the valve slightly into the tire cavity to make sure none of the reinforcement around the tube is in the way.
6. You should now be able to push the last section of bead over the rim. If not, make sure no tube is showing under the tire bead and repeat from step #3. You may try talc under the bead if you wish.
7. Pull the valve stem back out, mount a presta nut if that is your preference (see note below) and inflate to about 30-40psi, check the bead line (raised ridge of rubber near the rim edge to make sure it is equidistant everywhere. If at any point the bead line is further away from the rim edge at one point deflate and recheck for tube or rim strip sitting in the way of the bead.
8. Continue to inflate and monitor to full pressure. If at any point the bead line is closer to the rim (or disappears) in one spot you will need to overinflate to correct. Deflate the tire enough to add some household cleaner (Fantastic, 409, etc) or talc (or other things people may recommend, as long as it does not harm or rubber or compromise braking) in the problem area. You may need to inflate up to 20% over the recommended pressure to release the “dip.”

If you still have problems you can use toe straps or cable ties to the bead hold one side of the valve stem in place while working on the other side.

whitefiretiger

good wright up.

i cant stand stubberen tires. but what i find funny is the people that say skiny tires are harder to mount. i run a wide range of tires and my skinny tires are as easy to mount as my wide tires. the ones ive had the most trouble with are the super hard rubber ones that dont have much give.

for stubren tires i treat them like car tires and use a small dab of dish soap on the lip to get them on... ive never had one pop back off doing this either.

i avoid using levers for installing tires. imo they are only to be used to remove tires.

fietsbob

If there is a well between the bead-seats, there is a place for the opposite bead seat to go.

robbied196

Thanks for all the comments, hopefully some of the above will help save me from breaking my thumbs each time I fit new tyres!

Leebo

Soap and water on the rim will help.

alexaschwanden

Try heating up the rubber to make it more flexible, or use more force.

FBinNY 

It usually isn't the rubber, but that the bead diameter is tight, and a shallow rim doesn't allow enough slack to be brought to the far side.

Anyway, if you need heat to mount a tire, what will you do on the road?

loose spoke

Not trying to highjack the thread; this is very relevant.

Has anyone had a folding tire where you can't even get the first bead on the rim? I can get all except the last 4-6" on, then no more. I can't figure a way for tire jacks to help since they seem to be for closing the last bead, so the Hook is backwards.

Already have thin tape.

I haven't tried a different rim to see if that's the issue. If I can get them on a temporary rim, I can try to stretch them... But I'd like to learn how to get this to work.

I've searched the forums and can find lots of tips for the second bead, but not much for the first.
Any suggestions?

- Tom

FBinNY 

I don't know if this will help, or cause you to get one on so that you can't get it off, but here's how to use the tire jack for the first side.

Before doing this double check (then check again) that the tire and rim match, ie. both are 622, and one isn't 630.

Ok so without a tube on, place the rim into the tire on side with beads overhanging both sides of the rim. With neither bead in the rim, there's plenty of room to bring the one bead over all the way around. Now you have the rim inside the tire, and essentially 2 second sides to mount, and can therefore use the tire jack on one side, stuff the tube, then use it again on the other side.

whitefiretiger

This works I've had to do it but didn't need levers... It eliminated the need for them somehow.

loose spoke

Thanks for the suggestion. That is exactly the problem: I can't get the tire started with the first bead over the tire, so the rim could not possibly be inside the tire until that happens.

The rim is a Velo Orange PBP 700c and I've mounted other tires on them, but not folders. The tires are Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 700x27c folding.
I have tried heating the tires in hot water, stretching the tire by standing on it and pulling, tire levers, and expletives.

FBinNY 

Putting a rim inside a tire is an entirely (no pun) different proposition than putting r tire inside a rim. Give my suggestion a shot and you'll find that it's a piece of cake. You'll have the rim in the tire with the tire overhanging both sides so each will be as what you call the second side, and the tire jack will work. Or you can write off my suggestion as hopeless and continue with the expletives.


Your problem is that you have one of those unfortunate combinations. Even if you can get it mounted, Consider the difficult of repairing a simple flat on the road. I suggest you give up on these folding tires. Folding Kevlar beads have more give than the steel hoop beads they replaced, so makers compensate by starting undersize. The rim might also contribute by having a shallow center well, but you might have more success with a steel beaded non-folding tire. Ask around for one know to be easier mounting.

loose spoke

FB, thanks again.
I understand the possibility of the pairing of this tire and rim combination is not a good fit. I've done a dozen or so folders and normally I can get the first bead over the rim side and into the chanel.
So I understand your suggestion on future installs,, are you proposing I stretch the tire over the rim so they are concentric, with the bead hanging over both sides?
If so, how do I get the first bead over the rim in the first place? I know I'm missing some critical step... But getting the first bead over the tire seems to be part of it, and that's what I'm having trouble with in the first place. What am I missing?
Thanks again...
-Tom

FBinNY 

Yes, but no stretching or effort in involved.

As they say in Nike ads, JUST DO IT!

The tire is much deeper than a rim is, so putting the rim into the tire is about as easy as putting a pillow into a pillow case. It's easier to do, so I suggest you just try it instead of picturing it in you mind.

rm -rf

I also need a lever to mount the first bead on my Kinlin rims. Once one bead is on, with no tube mounted, it's so tight that I can't slide the tire around the rim to line up the label with the valve hole.

You need to be on the "tire" side of the wheel, so the unmounted bead is facing you,and the bead you are trying to mount is behind it. Then it's just the same as mounting the final bead. I use levers with a flat back side, so the bead can slide down to the end of the lever.

Like these Pedros levers:


Some rim and tire combinations make it difficult. I could just slip the first bead over my old rims, without any effort. Not my new rims, with their shallow wells.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to the OP's original question:

See my old thread about mounting tight fitting tires.

The key is to just lift an inch of the bead, and slide the lever over.

But you need to make sure the tube is tucked up, out of the way, or you'll pinch it and cause a leak.

An inch at a time:

loose spoke

Thanks for the input. This combination looks like it won't work... Just too tight. These rims are shallow too and it just won't give me enough slack to get it over. I'll try the tires on a looser rim and trust them to stretch a tad.

Otherwise, your method has never failed me... Until today.
Thanks to all...
- tom