bobotech

I have to agree.

I have bent aluminum parts all the time. Ever notice how an aluminum bottle cage is quite flexible? I have straightened out bent aluminum rear derailleur hangers frequently. I have bent back aluminum handlebars (not much, just slightly tweaked ones). I have bent/banged back into shape, aluminum car rims that whacked a good pothole or curb.

Granted the amount of bending an aluminum part can take is not quite what a steel part can take before failure but aluminum is definitely bendable.

berner

In our technological age nothing stays the same for long. What may have been true of a material in the past may not be true in the future or even in the present. Rodriguez Cycles now has a steel model, the Outlaw, made with the latest high strength tubing and it weighs just over 14 lbs. https://www.rodcycle.com/

I ride a Specialized Secteur, aluminum frame, that is plush but I use 28 mm tires with wide Velocity A23 rims.

JohnDThompson 

+1 this. Large diameter tubes offered more weld area to spread the stress better. The "stiffness is a virtue" mantra was developed to help market the frames.

danec99

OP, Buying a new bike.
For your money you will find better spec'd bikes using aluminum IMO. Mass produced aluminum will tend to be lighter than mass produced steel. I would be more concerned about wheelset and the components. Better wheels will improve your ride quality, wheels tend to be aluminum or carbon - don't see too many steel wheels these days - so regardless of your bike material chances are it is rolling on aluminum. Lighter wheelsets with better hubs will make a big difference. Your new aluminum bike will have a carbon fork, stem and handlebars, possibly even carbon seat stays - so road noise will be dampened. I think bike material is a more personal preference; I know people who prefer aluminum for it's stiffness in climbs but then I know people who think friction shifting is better. Look around, ride some bikes, how do they feel? Buy the bike that feels good and ride it.

Burton

Steel is used to make inexpensive, heavy, TIG welded department store bike frames AND expensive, light, triple butted, hand-brazed lugged frames. Aluminum, likewise, can be used to make heavy low-end frames or light high-end frames.

Look for a good bike, new or used and base it on the component quality and condition. You usually get what you pay for, and a lighter bike isn't always a 'better' bike unless you're into competition.

Most dealers will be happy to show you a variety of bikes once you explain how you want to use it.

gmt13

I imagine that the OP is more confused than ever. I can't comment on the difference because I have not put more than a mile on any but steel bikes. My advice is to decide what you are looking to buy and then go to a shop and try them out.

Good Luck.

I always wanted to try a wooden bike - may make myself one someday.

HillRider

This is absolutely correct but in today's market, steel is mostly sold as very heavy entry level bikes or as very high level and expensive hand made custom frames. There are exceptions such as the various Surlys, Trek's 520 and a few other mid-level specialty and touring bikes but, as far as the majority is concerned, steel mostly occupies both extremes.

Aluminum can also be sold as very low quality bikes (see any Walmart bike display) or as high quality bikes but generally occupies the mid-level in price and quality these days. For the big manufacturers (Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc.) their top tier bikes are all carbon fiber and their mid-level ones are aluminum with steel being a rarity.

cycle_maven

I've ridden mostly steel and carbon fiber bikes. My experience on one aluminum road bike was harsh and nasty. It was most likely due more to the tires and the way the frame was built than the material used. My modern TIG-welded 853 steel road bike rides very similarly, although it's about a pound heavier than the aluminum. It seems that designers of aluminum bikes tend toward the light, racy and harsh-riding even though they don't necessarily have to.

corwin1968

I have two Treks, a 1995 steel 730 and a 2007 aluminum 7.2 FX and I am riding them concurrently to decide on which frame to upgrade some components. The steel bike has slightly better components and by just lifting each, it's the lighter of the two bikes. Having said that, the aluminum bike feels more responsive and faster.

There are numerous other factors like geometry of the two bikes (close but not exact), crankarm stiffness & length and probably other factors I'm not aware of. I've ridden each bike with the others' tires & wheelset and regardless of what combo I use, my experience supports the "common wisdom" that a steel bike rides more comfortably while an aluminum bike rides more harshly. Also, the aluminum bike is more responsive to acceleration, even though I think it's the heavier of the two.

Don't take those two observations too negatively. The aluminum bike rides fine and the steel bike accelerates fine, there is just a discernible difference between the two.

fietsbob

Once upon a time, there were a couple Aluminum race bike frame builders
using aluminum in standard diameter tubed frames ..

Chombi

I do remember that most of the roads in Wisconsin were mostly smooth and flat (except maybe near the Dells?) compared to other parts of the country. Unless it different near Oshkosh or something??....
..I suspect a good saddle on your Trek might have helped out too.
Maybe its really much different comfort-wise with larger tubing bikes like a Cannondale. My younger brother, although a Cannondale owner/fan still admits to how he does not like its too stiff and uncomfortable ride.
And this is a guy who back in college with me (in the early 80's), preferred to ride mostly in 100+ degree heat and high humidity during Wisconsin summers while I melt in front of our apartment box fan most of the day.....
So he must have a very high pain threshold....

Chombi

HillRider

Yes there were, and the frames were flexy as wet noodles and had structural problems. Notice no one makes them like that any more and for good reason.

dedhed

That was back in the days when they had money to maintain them.

I rode an Alum '88 Trek 1000 (steel fork) for many years on my commute - wasn't a bad ride. I now ride a steel '87 Trek 400 on the same routes and much prefer the ride of this bike. Much of that I'll chalk up to the longer chainstays and geometry of the frame, not to mention one step up larger in tire size more than to the material of the frame.

spathfinder3408

I had a Cannondale aluminum touring bike I loved. It was fast and very responsive and had a nice ride. I saw a Cadd 2 for sale with a frame that looked like it was torn like paper. I decided if i was going to ride with a loaded touring bike steel lugged frames are stronger. If it does break a local welder could weld it. I had been riding steel frames primarely before the Cannondale and I went back. Just my preference. I'm now riding a KHS touring bike chromoly lugged frame. Not quite as fast, but fast enough and feel safer.

prathmann

Note that the 'wet noodle' frames didn't seem to slow Sean Kelly down. And the structural problems with some of the frames were due to the fastening method at the joints - not the frame material.

But I think you're missing the main point. If one can build Al frames noted for their comfortable ride relative to steel, albeit at the expense of some additional flexing when pedaling hard and one can also build Al frames noted for their stiffness when sprinting relative to steel, albeit with some sacrifice in comfort then it's not the choice of Al vs. steel that determines comfort vs. stiffness but rather the design choices made in the frame geometry and the tubing sizing.

MichaelW

In todays market, steel is used for mass market low end Bike Shaped Objects that are heavy and horrible.
It is also used for high end, low production rate, workshop and custom made frame that are lightweight, comfortable and durable. They occupy niches such as touring, tandems, fixed gear, recumbent as well as a few classic racebike styles.
Aluminium dominates the production scene for low end of reasonable quality, through the whole of the midmarket and some high end.
It has been noted that Al, Ti and steel all have about the same weight/strength ratio but vary in density.
Ti is 1/2 the density of steel and Al is 1/3 the density of steel.
If you make a bike in the same design, the ti will weigh 1/2 s much and the al 1/3 that of the steel frame.
BUT you need more volume of material to make a strong enough frame so they weigh less but not as much as the numbers indicate.
Within any material, from basic to premium grade, the strength can be increased a lot by alloying and heat treatment and the tubing can be thinned out by careful manufacturing, thus an expensive steel bike is much lighter than a cheap steel bike and even lighter than a cheap Al bike.
My high quality steel touring bike made from old fashioned Reynolds 531 Super Tourist is lighter than most midmarket aluminium hybrids.

I ride alu and steel and mostly I prefer riding a bicycle to not riding.

JohnDThompson 

The Trek bonded aluminum frames were explicitly designed to closely resemble the riding qualities of a steel frame.

cyccommute 

This really is a myth. I broke a frame back in the late 80's and had a machinist friend repair it. This is a guy who welds exotic metals, makes pressure vessels and fabricates lots of one off equipment for scientific experiments. He knows his stuff. Even he was amazed at how hard it was to weld the thin steel of a bicycle frame. He said it would be incredibly easy to burn through.

If you want to see a real life example of a repaired bike at a local blacksmith's near Outer Mongolia, look here.

HillRider

No, they didn't slow Kelly down enough to lose but I expect they didn't help him much either. As I mentioned, the design dissappeared quite quickly and for good reason. And yes, I realize it was the bonded and pinned joints that failed but, even so, aluminum frames that flex that much are prone to rapid fatigue failure. For a racing frame that was replace every year, or even more often, it wasn't a problem but would be for long time ownership.

And, no I haven't missed the point that you can build an aluminum, steel, Ti or carbon frame to have identical flex and riding properties by choosing the appropriate tube diameters and wall thickness. However, aluminum, due to it's fatique properties, is always made stiffer to reduce flex and improve longevity.

BikeWise1

Exactly what the local motorsports welding guru said when he saw the welds on my Waterford R-33. He peppered the conversation with lots of colorful metaphors.

digger531

first of all Cyccommute, your a dick. I would like to see you ride said 1.4lb alluminum frame. Having to use three times the material is what makes them stiffer. My post was certainlly not presented as fact but as opinion and hearsay. If I would have put the word frame behind steel and alluminum it would have been better, agreed but I dont think any of this helps the OP

DOS

I can't comment on the metalurgy/frame building aspects of this thread but here is my specific experience .

-- I have a 2004 Cannondale CAAD7 (Alu) frame with Shimano 105 and Ultegra components/Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. Was $1350 new in 2004 (MSRP was 1500)

-- I had a 2005 Jamis Quest Steel (Reynolds 631) frame with pretty much identical components about $1250 new. That frame has since been replaced (car accident) with SOMA frame of similar construction (Tange prestige tubes). Other than Jamis and boutique frame sellers like SOMA and Surly, there aren't a lot of midlevel steel bikes out there.

-- Defer to frame experts out there whether one can make qualitative comparison between CAAD7 and reynolds/tange steel tubes

Cannondale is definitely stiffer and about 1.5 pounds lighter (18.5 versus 20 -- I am a clydesdale so 1.5 pounds give or take is not an issue-- if only I could get the saddle lighter). I notice benefit of stiffness mostly in acceleration or mashing on pedals going up hills.

Jamis/Soma is definitely a bit smoother. I notice this mostly when cruising along on flats.

When riding steel bike in aggressive group rides involving hills and accelerations, I have work a bit harder than when on the Cannondale, so end up more tired at the end of a ride. But on long moderately paced rides, I feel better at the end because of the plusher ride of the steel bike.

I love both bikes and choose the one I ride based on how I am planning to ride that day.

cyccommute 

Let's start with a grammar lesson, shall we? "your" is a personal possessive pronoun relating to the speaker as in your bicycle or your tires. The contraction you are looking for is "you're" which is a shortening of the phrase "you are" as in "you are wrong" or "you're totally off base" or "you're full of crap". Of course that contraction is usually followed by a cogent argument as to why the subject of "you are" is wrong.

Now on to reading comprehension: I didn't say that you could ride a 1.4 lb aluminum frame. I specifically said that you have to use more material to make an aluminum frame of the same strength as a steel frame. But using more material doesn't make aluminum stiffer. You could use solid rod that is the same diameter as a steel frame's tubes and the bike wouldn't be that much stiffer. Aluminum gains it's stiffness from the tube diameters which resist bending, i.e. are stiffer, better than smaller tubes with thicker walls.

Now let's (a contraction of "let us") discuss opinion. You are entitled to your opinions but you aren't entitled to your own facts. Perhaps an example would be in order: For example it is your opinion (notice the proper use), that I am a dick. You are entitled to that opinion. However, my parents didn't give me the name "Richard", so, in fact, I am not a Dick.

If you present an opinion on a fact that is faulty...like "Alluminum is very stiff so it has no give, none" (your spelling, by the way)...then expect it to be challenged. Facts are facts, especially when it comes to materials. They can be measured. They can be tested. They are the same everywhere with in our little corner of the Universe (and likely everywhere else in the Universe). It is a fact that steel is stiffer than aluminum. It is a fact that steel weighs more then aluminum. It is a fact that steel is stronger than aluminum. It is also a fact that both of these materials can be used to make very good frames.

Finally 'hearsay' is defined as "information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience." If you base your opinions on 'hearsay' then you are stating that you have no direct experience concerning the topic on which you speaking. Basically you are passing along rumors. Do you really want to say that?

digger531

correcting my gramar and spelling is further proof of you being a dick. AND THIS STILL DOESNT HELP THE OP. I am certain we could get opinions on here with regard to frequencies of both materials and have a good ole time however this STILL WOULD NOT HELP THE OP. So if I understand your OPINION, you prefer alluminum to steel, so noted

DOS

I guess you were right about that.