Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

I want to build a rear wheel. Suggestions, info, anyone?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

I want to build a rear wheel. Suggestions, info, anyone?

Old 03-08-12, 10:36 PM
  #1  
KaisoArt
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I want to build a rear wheel. Suggestions, info, anyone?

I hoping to make a long distance trip in the near future. My bike has low spoke count racy wheels. I'd like to try my hand at building a 36 spoke rear wheel for the trip. I've been reading/studying the subject and figure it is something I can handle. I have the time, I'm generally focused, have patience, and can be quite finessed. What I am is overwhelmed by component choices. This wheel will be on a recumbent high racer carrying my 200+ lbs. I have always been hands on and have rebuilt/restored 4 motorcycles, and 2 cars so I like to think my skills will transfer.

Anyway, anyone have component recommendations? Primarily bearing and rims. Probably not Chris king, Phil Wood, or the other premium makers as the prices are a little more than I want to spend. Any objections to Ultegra 6700 36 spoke and a Mavic rim?
KaisoArt is offline  
Old 03-08-12, 11:00 PM
  #2  
FastJake
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,777
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
Any objections to Ultegra 6700 36 spoke and a Mavic rim?
Sounds good to me. 36x3 is probably the setup you could do for this application, especially since this will be your first wheel.

Since you already have race wheels I'd stay away from the lightest Mavic rims like the Open Pro. A CXP 33 or the heavier A 319 would be better choices. Not sure what wheel size you have though, and what rims are available in that size.
FastJake is offline  
Old 03-08-12, 11:02 PM
  #3  
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Posts: 6,390
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I like Ultegra hubs. The spacing good and they are very durable.

Which Mavic(s) are you considering?
canam73 is offline  
Old 03-08-12, 11:08 PM
  #4  
Amesja
Cottered Crank
 
Amesja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,493

Bikes: 1954 Raleigh Sports 1974 Raleigh Competition 1969 Raleigh Twenty 1964 Raleigh LTD-3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I'd look at the Sun CR18 or the RhinoLite as they are really tough rims as well as not very costly.

Go with 2mm straight-gauged SS spokes and brass nipples -not alloy.

As far as rims I'd go with what you can find as far as brands. I think what you are paying for is weight-weenieness over durability/longevity. Sealed are nice but old-style cup & cone are always nice too when it comes to sourcing parts to rebuild. Grease and balls -done!
Amesja is offline  
Old 03-08-12, 11:14 PM
  #5  
Amesja
Cottered Crank
 
Amesja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,493

Bikes: 1954 Raleigh Sports 1974 Raleigh Competition 1969 Raleigh Twenty 1964 Raleigh LTD-3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I wouldn't suggest anyone build with high-end components, or butted spokes, on their first build.

But to each their own...
Amesja is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 01:28 AM
  #6  
mrrabbit 
Senior Member
 
mrrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,402

Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 11 Posts
Ultegra 130mm or Deore XT 135mm would be fine...

Mavic A319s or A719 for really heavy duty stuff is fine...there are similar rims from other manufacturer's size and weight wise as well...Velocity, Alex, etc...

Remember, today's 14g, 14g/15g/14g and 13g/14g spoke have tons of strength already - which is limited by the rim you use. So there's no need to go crazy on the spokes. Grab the rim that you think fits best "category" wise for the weight and use you have in mind...high spoke count is a plus - 32-36.

=8-)

=8-)
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
mrrabbit is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 02:21 AM
  #7  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,207

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 489 Post(s)
Liked 222 Times in 166 Posts
Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
Anyway, anyone have component recommendations? Primarily bearing and rims. Probably not Chris king, Phil Wood, or the other premium makers as the prices are a little more than I want to spend. Any objections to Ultegra 6700 36 spoke
No. You really can't beat the quality of Shimano and Campagnolo hubs (they do things like coin the spoke holes which most of the boutique hub makers don't) and cup-and-cone bearings last pretty much forever when maintained.

and a Mavic rim?
They're nice and round but people haven't been happy with cracking around the spoke holes and report better build quality in DT rims.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 04:21 AM
  #8  
Monster Pete
Senior Member
 
Monster Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Warwick, UK
Posts: 1,049

Bikes: 2000-something 3 speed commuter, 1990-something Raleigh Scorpion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You can't go far wrong with a 36-spoke, 3 cross build. With this type of wheel, I'd choose hubs and rims based on their durability and longevity over any weight considerations. If you're loading up the bike for touring, a few grams off the hub won't make any difference.
Monster Pete is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 05:45 AM
  #9  
Franklin77
Banned.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think what you are paying for is weight-weenieness over durability/longevity. Sealed are nice but old-style cup & cone are always nice too when it comes to sourcing parts to rebuild.
Franklin77 is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 10:40 AM
  #10  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,925

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 216 Posts
Everything on a bicycle works together.

What's the dropout spacing of your frame? Ultegra hubs will come spaced to 130mm. If your frame is 135mm, and you're buying new hubs, I'd get XT hubs.

What kind of brakes do you have? Somebody mentioned Rhino Lite rims. Rhino lites have their place but I doubt they'll work with a road brake caliper. They're not the easiest rim to install tires on either.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 10:41 AM
  #11  
reddog3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: River City, OR
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
I wouldn't suggest anyone build with high-end components, or butted spokes, on their first build.

But to each their own...
Why not? Part of the reason for building your own is so you can get higher-end components at lower costs. No matter the components used a wheel needs to be built properly to last. Use the best parts you can afford.

Ultegra hubs are fine, as are the XT's that mr. bunny mentioned. Choose the hub that fits the DO spacing. My suggestion to save a few bucks are the 5700 series 105s. They share the same bearings and cones and races as Ultegra. The hub shell appears the same, and the weight is within a couple grams, but half-price.

As with any aftermarket Shimano hub, the hub must be serviced when new before being put into use. Shimano sets them up too tight, and the lubing is inadequate, IMO. Clean 'em- grease and adjust and you're good to go.

Rims? A recumbent carries a lot more weight over the rear wheel than a DF. I'd go with a little wider rim that supports a larger tire better. Long distance rides where your butt is mostly over the rearend, on a skinny high pressure tire, might be a PITA.

Plain or eyeletted? I don't think it really matters in a quality rim. Something in the 475 to 550 gram range from either Mavic or Velocity will be up to the task. A lot of folks will recommend straight guage spokes. I question that recommendation.
reddog3 is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 03:45 PM
  #12  
KaisoArt
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions. A little more info. The bike has 130 rear dropout, 10-speed SRAM, 700c wheels and brakes to match. So I think most mountain components would be incompatible. I mention Mavic as a rim because of how the survived a crash a friend suffered. 200+lb guy, 20+mph, head on into a curb. Alu/carbon Bike broke into 3 pieces. Mavic krysiums were perfect.
KaisoArt is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 04:22 PM
  #13  
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Posts: 6,390
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Krysiums have a beefy rim. Don't try that with an Open Pro.
canam73 is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 05:06 PM
  #14  
cycle_maven
Collector of Useless Info
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
+1 on the Ultegra or 105 hub and A719 rim. That's a prescription for a bulletproof wheel, but CR-18's are pretty sturdy too. Also, here's the best resource I've ever used for how-to instructions: https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

A couple of tips: Get a good spoke wrench and a Park tension meter. My build quality went up dramatically when I got those items. Truing stand is optional but handy. I don't use any spoke prep, but I mark the spokes with a felt-tip pen near the nipple before tensioning to gauge the windup. I figure that having no windup in the first place is better than trying to remove it in the de-stressing.
cycle_maven is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 05:15 PM
  #15  
Puget Pounder
Wookie Jesus inspires me.
 
Puget Pounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
I wouldn't suggest anyone build with high-end components, or butted spokes, on their first build.

But to each their own...
Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
Why not? Part of the reason for building your own is so you can get higher-end components at lower costs. No matter the components used a wheel needs to be built properly to last. Use the best parts you can afford.

Ultegra hubs are fine, as are the XT's that mr. bunny mentioned. Choose the hub that fits the DO spacing. My suggestion to save a few bucks are the 5700 series 105s. They share the same bearings and cones and races as Ultegra. The hub shell appears the same, and the weight is within a couple grams, but half-price.

As with any aftermarket Shimano hub, the hub must be serviced when new before being put into use. Shimano sets them up too tight, and the lubing is inadequate, IMO. Clean 'em- grease and adjust and you're good to go.

Rims? A recumbent carries a lot more weight over the rear wheel than a DF. I'd go with a little wider rim that supports a larger tire better. Long distance rides where your butt is mostly over the rearend, on a skinny high pressure tire, might be a PITA.

Plain or eyeletted? I don't think it really matters in a quality rim. Something in the 475 to 550 gram range from either Mavic or Velocity will be up to the task. A lot of folks will recommend straight guage spokes. I question that recommendation.
I agree with reddog3. If you are building a wheel, use nice components since you are going through the effort. Go double butted... single gauge will do, but they are weaker, add more weight, and will not save you much money. Wheels are investment that will last you a long time. Do it right the first time!

OP - Have you thought about going with a Velocity Dyad? Burly rims!
Puget Pounder is offline  
Old 03-09-12, 09:31 PM
  #16  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,925

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
Ultegra hubs are fine, as are the XT's that mr. bunny mentioned. Choose the hub that fits the DO spacing. My suggestion to save a few bucks are the 5700 series 105s. They share the same bearings and cones and races as Ultegra. The hub shell appears the same, and the weight is within a couple grams, but half-price.
Wiper seals vs. double labyrinth seals. Not the same thing at all.

I built a wheelset for my tandem using Dyad rims. I was over-the-moon with how them came out. One wheel required no trueing at all - once I pulled the spokes up to tension the wheel was within 1/2mm of redial and lateral true.

Last edited by Retro Grouch; 03-09-12 at 09:35 PM.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 03-10-12, 04:58 PM
  #17  
labrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 223

Bikes: Bianchi Road bike, Nashbar Ultegra triple cyclocross, Raleigh full XT hybrid, lugged steel Schwinn, Full rigid Diamondback MTB

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I too built up a set of Velocity Dyads. Had a set of 36h XT A719's on my hybrid/ utility bike but developed cracks around a few of the rear eyelets. In all fairness, the sidewalls were worn to the indicators, they were loaded to the hilt for camping and utility use, and were pounded mercilessly on many miles of rutted icy roads.
labrat is offline  
Old 03-10-12, 05:51 PM
  #18  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,275
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 65 Times in 59 Posts
What kind of bike and are you going to carry your gear on it?
davidad is offline  
Old 03-10-12, 07:46 PM
  #19  
KaisoArt
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So I'm narrowing the rim down to Dyad or CXP33. Still not sure about the hub. I think I'd prefer a sealed bearing hub but I'm not finding any with 36 holes. If not, I just might go with 105 since most info suggests the difference between Ultegra and 105 is a few grams. Not really a problem if touring.
KaisoArt is offline  
Old 03-10-12, 08:25 PM
  #20  
mrrabbit 
Senior Member
 
mrrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,402

Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
So I'm narrowing the rim down to Dyad or CXP33. Still not sure about the hub. I think I'd prefer a sealed bearing hub but I'm not finding any with 36 holes. If not, I just might go with 105 since most info suggests the difference between Ultegra and 105 is a few grams. Not really a problem if touring.
CXP-33 is a light weight AERO racing clincher...Open Pro without the DeepV section basically...

=8-)
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
mrrabbit is offline  
Old 03-11-12, 08:38 AM
  #21  
reddog3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: River City, OR
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Wiper seals vs. double labyrinth seals. Not the same thing at all.
Normally I wouldn't respond back so as not to sound argumentative. The left (NDS) side seal is the same part number. Drive side is a different part number, as is the freehub assembly. I suspect the seal number is different to accomodate a different fixing bolt (diameter?).

The front hub seal is the same part number for both Ultegra (6700) and 105 (5700). That these two share some parts may not have been true in the 5600 (105) series and earlier.

I don't know for sure but I suspect the main difference is the freehub body. Different material? Lighter? Better? I'm still hunting for a definite answer so I truly know if the Ultegra is worth twice the price. For now I'm leaning the 105 way to save a few bucks. I've built on both 105 and Ultegra, and ride both. Overall my wallet likes the 105s.
reddog3 is offline  
Old 03-12-12, 12:02 PM
  #22  
KaisoArt
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ordered a black 36h 105 hub and Dyad rim. Will start getting informed on spokes. Suggestions for an online source? I have no aversion to getting them from an LBS, it just that my off time never coincides with when they are open, and online delivers to my work.
KaisoArt is offline  
Old 03-13-12, 10:21 AM
  #23  
reddog3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: River City, OR
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Once you determine the spoke length required it's unusual if the LBS had them in stock. If they have to order you'll wait the same as ordering online, and your cost might be higher.

Everyone has their favorites. I'm partial to Wheelsmith spokes. I never do wheels with straight guage spokes unless the lengths (shorter) aren't available in DB. There's lots of suppliers, but I use https://www.universalcycles.com/ They have good stock levels and are local to me.
reddog3 is offline  
Old 03-13-12, 11:36 AM
  #24  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,925

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
Normally I wouldn't respond back so as not to sound argumentative. The left (NDS) side seal is the same part number. Drive side is a different part number, as is the freehub assembly. I suspect the seal number is different to accomodate a different fixing bolt (diameter?).

The front hub seal is the same part number for both Ultegra (6700) and 105 (5700). That these two share some parts may not have been true in the 5600 (105) series and earlier.
I'll admit that the hubs that I've disassembled aren't new stock so there may have been changes. I'll tell you this, however, the cones and seals were significantly visably different. They used a completely different sealing method.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 03-13-12, 11:39 AM
  #25  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,925

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
Once you determine the spoke length required it's unusual if the LBS had them in stock. If they have to order you'll wait the same as ordering online, and your cost might be higher.

Everyone has their favorites. I'm partial to Wheelsmith spokes. I never do wheels with straight guage spokes unless the lengths (shorter) aren't available in DB. There's lots of suppliers, but I use https://www.universalcycles.com/ They have good stock levels and are local to me.
I have an LBS who will sell me things like spokes at wholesale prices (I do some favors for them). The downside is that to do that I also have to buy in wholesale lots. For my last several wheel builds I've just ordered the exact number of spokes that I needed from wheelbuilder.com. It's easier, usually faster and cheaper.
Retro Grouch is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.